Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A simple web we own

rsdoiel.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 240 posts

Re: A simple web we own

#161

Post by nunobrito »

nine_k wrote: post #32
RajT88 wrote: post #25

The only way we own a web of our own is to develop much more of a culture of leaving smallish machines online all the time. Imagine something like Tor or BitTorrent, but everyone has a very simple way of running their own node for content hosting. That always-on device? To get critical mass, instead of just the nerds, you'd need it to ship with devices which are always-on, like routers/gateways, smart TV's. Then you'…

This is very right. There are two obstacles. (1) Security. An always-on, externally accessible device will always be a target for breaking in. You want the device to be bulletproof, and to have defense in depth, so that breaking into one service does not affect anything else. Something like Proxmox that works on low-end hardware and is as easy to administer as a mobile phone would do. We are somehow far from this yet…

This is being solved with https://geogram.radio

Every phone/device is their own server, they connect with a web socket to the preferred station which is typically a server online serving as bridge.

There is no need to be always connected to a server, you can also connect locally on the WiFi, BLE or even USB-C cables (discovery is automatic).

From there are internal apps for sharing static websites, chat, blogs, files and so forth.

Re: A simple web we own

#162

Post by koalacongregate »

amarant wrote: post #33
jejeyyy77 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if only we all had a little device that was always on and and connected….

If I'm reading the implication right, you're having a pretty terrible idea. Glossing over what running a server would do to your battery, it would never work because of the routing issues you'll run into. With IPv6 it would theoretically be possible, but currently with ipv4 and NATs everywhere, your website would almost never be reachable, even with fancy workarounds like dynDNS

Can you explain more about the routing issues? Because I've also been thinking about how practically everyone has an old smartphone with a broken screen in a drawer somewhere, and whether we could encourage people to use that for self-hosting. If you leave it at home, always plugged in and on your own network, I don't know how it would be different than any other device running a server?

Re: A simple web we own

#163

Post by soco »

Nition wrote: post #131
slopinthebag wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, capitalism?

This comment thread fully equating culture with economic system is probably part of the problem.

I don't think you can separate culture from economic system, they influence each other all the time - it's the same people.

Re: A simple web we own

#164

Post by DeathArrow »

beders wrote: post #72

As someone who is roughly in the same age group as the author and who was running a BBS, has witnessed the rise of IP4 networks, HTTP, Mosaic etc. let me provide a counter-point. The democratization ends at your router. Unless you are willing to lay down your own wires - which for legal reasons you most likely won't be able to do, we will hopelessly be dependent on the ISP. (Radio on free frequencies is possible and…

>The democratization ends at your router. Unless you are willing to lay down your own wires - which for legal reasons you most likely won't be able to do, we will hopelessly be dependent on the ISP.

We can have other protocols on top of TCP/IP and build a new Internet over the existing one, much like TOR/I2P/Hyphanet/Lokinet but without many of the disadvantages of those.

Re: A simple web we own

#165

Post by DeathArrow »

Using Raspberry Pi, $20 network switches and cheap wire won't be useful for building a new Internet.

Also, you don't even have the rights to lay 'em wires wherever you see fit.

Re: A simple web we own

#166

Post by throwaway5465 »

pessimizer wrote: post #87
shevy-java wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short: there's no hope of getting a world-wide, free, uncensored, unlimited IP4/6 network back. We never had it in the first place. We can build such a society. I am not sure why you think this is never possible. People can work for a better world. That sometimes works, too.

> People can work for a better world. That sometimes works, too. Not when people make arguments based on dreams, hope, and optimism. If somebody tells me that we can build a shed, I want them to talk about wood, nails and concrete, or to stop talking.

A shed is in your garden. Happiness is in your head.

Re: A simple web we own

#167

Post by throwaway5465 »

fragmede wrote: post #126
pessimizer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People can work for a better world. That sometimes works, too. Not when people make arguments based on dreams, hope, and optimism. If somebody tells me that we can build a shed, I want them to talk about wood, nails and concrete, or to stop talking.

If someone tells me we can build a shed, I'm going to ask who's land are we building it on, who's paying for it, what zoning/permitting laws apply, who's going to own it (form an LLC or a -corp with shares). The kind of wood and the type of nails aren't even worth wasting time discussing until we've answered those questions first.

Sometimes action outside concensus is needed.

Re: A simple web we own

#168

Post by reppap »

shevy-java wrote: post #75
beders wrote: post #72

As someone who is roughly in the same age group as the author and who was running a BBS, has witnessed the rise of IP4 networks, HTTP, Mosaic etc. let me provide a counter-point. The democratization ends at your router. Unless you are willing to lay down your own wires - which for legal reasons you most likely won't be able to do, we will hopelessly be dependent on the ISP. (Radio on free frequencies is possible and…

> In short: there's no hope of getting a world-wide, free, uncensored, unlimited IP4/6 network back. We never had it in the first place. We can build such a society. I am not sure why you think this is never possible. People can work for a better world. That sometimes works, too.

The assertion that an uncensored internet is a better world should probably require some motivation.

If everyone was a normal (as far as anyone is normal) law abiding citizen perhaps I would agree, but sadly that is far from the case. I think history has quite clearly shown that there is a minority of people out there that will take advantage and ruin things for everyone else. It's the same reason we have militaries, police forces, government checks and balances, etc. The internet is no exception to this.

I don't think the world is simple enough where anyone could be absolutist about freedom, it's all grey areas and complicated lines drawn.

Re: A simple web we own

#169

Post by bodegajed »

beders wrote: post #72

As someone who is roughly in the same age group as the author and who was running a BBS, has witnessed the rise of IP4 networks, HTTP, Mosaic etc. let me provide a counter-point. The democratization ends at your router. Unless you are willing to lay down your own wires - which for legal reasons you most likely won't be able to do, we will hopelessly be dependent on the ISP. (Radio on free frequencies is possible and…

Yeah, it's kinda sad reality and I suddenly felt gloomy. Do you have a more optimistic view that you can share?

Re: A simple web we own

#170

Post by mb2100 »

disease wrote: post #19

As the author of a content management system I made with the idea to democratize internet content creation, I've had a lot of the same thoughts that the author brings up here. I've always thought that even learning Markdown was a bridge to far when it comes to empowering non-technical users however. In my experience it's best just to supply tooling similar to Word where you have buttons for things like lists and bold…

Yeah, for that a git-based CMS like Sveltia is really nice.

And for people that actually want to learn a bit of HTML, CSS and JavaScript, Mastro JS is as simple a static site generator as I could make it.

Post reply on HN