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Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

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Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#191

Post by gkbrk »

mort96 wrote: post #170
gkbrk wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people like chat bot sidebars. My code editor has a built-in chat bot sidebar that I use every day. It's not a huge stretch that people who use chatbot sidebars in other applications would also want one in their browser. ChatGPT is the #6 most popular website in the world, why wouldn't a browser want tighter integration with such a popular kind of service?

Should Firefox build in a separate side bar for every popular website? Would you want a Facebook side bar and Facebook account integration? I wouldn't.

The way users use Facebook and LLMs are so massively different, it almost seems like a bad faith argument to equate them.

Facebook is mostly scrolling the timeline and passive consumption. It doesn't benefit from being on the side because the content you interact with on Facebook is completely separate from the content on your other tabs.

In contrast, LLMs have ongoing conversations that the user can come back to, and each conversation might relate to multiple tabs that the user is working on. On top of that, it's a very common occurrence that the user has questions about, or a task to be done using the content of the current page. This makes LLM and chatbot integration much more useful than a Facebook integration.

Also if you have the Facebook Messenger installed, Firefox already gives you an integration to share things with your Facebook contacts.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#192

Post by godelski »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #135
godelski wrote: post #84

Firefox does what some people want, people complain. Firefox does what other people want, people complain. Firefox does what both people want, people complain. I'm sorry, but we'll never get corporations to do what we want if we don't throw them the smallest bone when we get our way. You need positive reinforcement too, not just negative. If it's all negative they just stop caring and you get companies lot Google who…

The reason people complain is because Mozilla claims it's better and more pure than everybody else.

Well "everybody else" is Google. I'm not sure that bar is even high enough to trip over.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#193

Post by input_sh »

mort96 wrote: post #179
input_sh wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You people"? Take a look at my comment history and see my takes on AI please, but this is like the least harmful way of integrating it and yet "you people" are the loudest about it. Can you do the same on Windows? Is it tucked away in settings on macOS? Can you disable it on Google? Can you disable it anywhere else? Why are you the most vocal about the integration that is literally the easiest to turn off? You need…

The AI boosting from the likes of you is the reason Mozilla is sinking Firefox by turning it into an "AI browser". I don't want anything to do with that. I would've been equally outraged about Windows becoming an "agentic OS" if I had been a Windows user. I don't like what Apple is doing to my phone and laptop, but at least they haven't promised to make the iPhone an "AI phone". More than one thing can be bad at a ti…

> The AI boosting from the likes of you

Again, look at my comment history. I'm not discussing AI-as-a-whole because as you've pointed out it's not the topic of this discussion. I'm discussing how trivial it is to turn off as opposed to literally anywhere else, and that's not even discussing the provider choice you don't get anywhere else.

There's a whole section in macOS/iOS settings titled "Apple Intelligence and Siri" with ChatGPT being the only option, and you're seemingly happy with that compromise. Yet here you are complaining about an integration that's even easier to turn off and allows you to pick between 5 providers. There is literally no way of triggering it that doesn't immediately show you the "turn it off" button as it is right now (as in before this update reaches me).

I also invite you to go to firefox.com right now and find me a single mention of AI, since you for some reason are imagining that it is being advertised as an "AI browser".

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#195

Post by throwawayk7h »

SapporoChris wrote: post #30

[flagged]

It's more like if eating guano became a fad, and restaurants started offering guano dishes, and this one said "OK we'll still have guano on the menu because it is popular with some patrons, but we'll have a separate menu with no guano options at all for those who want to be sure they're not getting any."

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#196

Post by duttish »

fenykep wrote: post #185
vient wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approximately all people update Firefox so you don't need telemetry to count "AI disabled" installations, instead you can derive it as "updates requested" minus "AI enabled".

But the AI and telemetry toggles aren't coupled. While we can assume that users who disable telemetry are more likely to have AI disabled as well this still isn't translating to user numbers.

Hm. I don't think I follow "isn't translating to user numbers", could you elaborate?

Here's my thinking: There's 100 users getting updates. There's 40 users sending telemetry with AI enabled There's 10 users sending telemetry with AI disabled

So we have 50 people not sending telemetry and using or not using AI. If we assume more likely but not overwhelmingly more it's 30 people.

So we end up with 40+20 with AI, and 10+30 without?

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#197

Post by mort96 »

godelski wrote: post #178
gkbrk wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people like chat bot sidebars. My code editor has a built-in chat bot sidebar that I use every day. It's not a huge stretch that people who use chatbot sidebars in other applications would also want one in their browser. ChatGPT is the #6 most popular website in the world, why wouldn't a browser want tighter integration with such a popular kind of service?

> My code editor has a built-in chat bot sidebar that I use every day. Even as a vim user I don't get why an AI chat bot shoved into an IDE is endlessly praised while an optional hidden chatbot in a browser is treated like some grave insult. Last I checked, OpenAI was the 5th most visited website. No one complained that browsers made it easier to interface with the most popular website (Google) by directly typing int…

I ... am not convinced that the people who praise Microsoft for shoving Copilot into VS Code are the same people who criticize Mozilla for shoving ChatGPT into Firefox

Personally I dislike both, and VS Code marketing itself as an "AI code editor" is one of many reasons why I would never consider using VS Code.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#198

Post by throwawayk7h »

mort96 wrote: post #131
mrklol wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox mentions the following ones: "- Translations, which help you browse the web in your preferred language. - Alt text in PDFs, which add accessibility descriptions to images in PDF pages. - AI-enhanced tab grouping, which suggests related tabs and group names. - Link previews, which show key points before you open a link. - AI chatbot in the sidebar, which lets you use your chosen chatbot as you browse, includin…

I wonder what sort of user testing made them decide that what Firefox users really need is a chat bot in the site bar. Isn't a chat bot in a tab good enough? And calling translation "AI" seems like deceitful retroactive rebranding. Why is machine translation suddenly "AI" now ? It was never branded as such before. Is "AI" here just used to mean machine learning?

I saw someone else using this feature. It does more than just be a chat bot. You can direct it to automate tasks like go to a web page, search for stuff, etc. -- I asked it to go to pinterest and download the top ten images for "cyberpunk," and it succeeded. Nifty I suppose.

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#199

Post by godelski »

mort96 wrote: post #179
input_sh wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You people"? Take a look at my comment history and see my takes on AI please, but this is like the least harmful way of integrating it and yet "you people" are the loudest about it. Can you do the same on Windows? Is it tucked away in settings on macOS? Can you disable it on Google? Can you disable it anywhere else? Why are you the most vocal about the integration that is literally the easiest to turn off? You need…

The AI boosting from the likes of you is the reason Mozilla is sinking Firefox by turning it into an "AI browser". I don't want anything to do with that. I would've been equally outraged about Windows becoming an "agentic OS" if I had been a Windows user. I don't like what Apple is doing to my phone and laptop, but at least they haven't promised to make the iPhone an "AI phone". More than one thing can be bad at a ti…

They aren't AI boasting, they just don't agree with you. Stop pretending everyone is your enemy

Re: Firefox 148 Launches with AI Kill Switch Feature and More Enhancements

#200

Post by mort96 »

godelski wrote: post #187
mort96 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what Mozilla means by "AI browser", but one would assume it means more than "regular browser with an optional chat bot sidebar". I don't wanna figure out what it means, I don't wanna use anything that could fairly be described as an "AI browser".

> I don't know what Mozilla means by "AI browser", Well it's not like they're being quiet about it. They've openly discussed what features they're working on and planning. So maybe start there. > "regular browser with an optional chat bot sidebar". I don't wanna figure out what it means It's not a hard thing you figure out. Optional means you don't have to use it. In fact, if you never open it you'll never know it ex…

Your quote doesn't make sense, you can't just rip a sentence fragment out of its context and criticize it. The thing I don't wanna figure out what means is the term "AI browser". I know what a chat bot sidebar is.
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