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The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#41

Post by egorfine »

condiment wrote: post #31

We are missing accessible cryptographic infrastructure for human identity verification. For age verification specifically, the only information that services need proof of is that the users age is above a certain threshold. i.e. that the user is 14 years or older. But in order to make this determination, we see services asking for government ID (which many 14-year-olds do not have), or for invasive face scans. These…

You are missing the point.

They don't care whether you are 14 or not. They want your biometrics and identification. "Think of the children" is just a pretense.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#42

Post by yogurt-male »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

Could be astroturfing

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#43

Post by malfist »

enjoykaz wrote: post #36

Most of this debate makes more sense if the actual goal is liability reduction, not child safety. If it were genuinely about protecting kids, you'd regulate infinite scroll and algorithmic engagement optimization, not who can log in.

If the US really cared about child safety they'd go after people in the epstien files.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#44

Post by iamnothere »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

Although there is some organic support, there is a lot of coordinated astroturfing. It’s apparent if you watch the discussions across platforms, there are obvious shared talking points that come in waves.

Governments (and a few companies) really want this.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#45

Post by RockRobotRock »

edgyquant wrote: post #7

Everything is a trade off in the world. I think that people who are anti-id ignore this but for me personally it’s harder and harder to accept the trade offs of an internet without id. AI has only accelerated this, I don’t want to live in a world where the average person unknowingly interacts with bots more than other individuals and where black market actors can sway public opinion with armies of bots. I think most…

(Disclaimer: American perspective)

Why don't we have PKI built in to our birth certificates and drivers licenses? Why hasn't a group of engineers and experts formed a consortium to try and solve this problem in the least draconian and most privacy friendly way possible?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#46

Post by pixl97 »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

I mean there has always been some part of the tech literate people that were like that, they were just less likely to post about it on forums. Heck after the eternal September it wasn't uncommon for 'jokes' about requiring a license to use the internet.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#47

Post by kneel25 »

enjoykaz wrote: post #36

Most of this debate makes more sense if the actual goal is liability reduction, not child safety. If it were genuinely about protecting kids, you'd regulate infinite scroll and algorithmic engagement optimization, not who can log in.

Pretty sure they’re doing both of those things but it takes a long time for the regulation to reach the final stage

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#48

Post by illumanaughty »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34

It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?

There's a high chance the government is attempting to influence public opinion by using botted comments, which is easier than ever to pull off.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#49

Post by nazgulsenpai »

bondarchuk wrote: post #6
malfist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famously children can only access internet from wifi paid for by their parents. I'm not for these draconian age verification nonsense, but this isn't a valid argument.

It is a valid alternative avenue towards a legal implementation of "child safeguarding" IMO. Someone pays for the internet, that person is responsible for what minors do on their connection. If they have trouble doing that we can use normal societal mechanisms like idk social services, education, and government messaging. This is the way it works with e.g. alcohol and cigarettes, most places. Famously kids can just g…

If protecting children were the actual intended outcome, this would have been the logical way to do it. Since it isn't what they're actually doing, instead using personally identifiable information to establish your age, we can only assume it's an attempt to deanonymize the internet.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#50

Post by iamnothere »

Levitz wrote: post #37
edgyquant wrote: post #7

Everything is a trade off in the world. I think that people who are anti-id ignore this but for me personally it’s harder and harder to accept the trade offs of an internet without id. AI has only accelerated this, I don’t want to live in a world where the average person unknowingly interacts with bots more than other individuals and where black market actors can sway public opinion with armies of bots. I think most…

Astroturfing was already a thing. Identification fixes nothing here, you log with your account, plug in the AI. The problems with social media have nothing to do with ID and everything to do with godawful incentives, the argument seems to be that it's a large price to pay but that it's worth it. Worth it for what? The end result is absolutely terrible either way

Astroturfing will still be a thing after ID. What, you think the government is going to go after their own bot armies?
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