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Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#191

Post by g-mork »

lnsru wrote: post #147

Can anybody predict this craze? The classical memory manufacturers are not yet adding additional manufacturing capacity. They learned this hard way in the past. That means, the demand is here to stay for years without typical bubble burst. Is this a point where Chinese companies will rise worldwide?

The massive DC overbuild matches demand, prices normalise somewhat in 3-5 years.

The massive DC overbuild does not match demand, prices tank in 3-5 years.

Third possibility: some approach like Taalas renders the current storyline meaningless. Would put 3 in 10 odds of this happening but I'd looove to see it.

Fourth: entire planet gets profoundly sick of emdashes, we all move back into caves and live in eternal gratitude of the moment humanity woke up to how little all of this really matters.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#192

Post by 1718627440 »

alt227 wrote: post #144
citrin_ru wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect a large provider like Hetzner to refresh hardware continuously - every year a fraction of old hardware is retired and replaced by new. Given price shock they could stop doing this but older hardware is less energy efficient and has limited life anyway.

But they cant refresh hardware already sold to customers can they? So increasing prices on existing cutomer hardware is what, subsidising hardware refreshes elsewhere in the datacenter?

Often they do not actually sell you hardware servers, but VMs running on them, with designated properties.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#193

Post by embedding-shape »

dizhn wrote: post #174
embedding-shape wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've only ever increased the ipv4 prices for already existing customers before if I am not mistaken No, that's not true, they've done increases before, at least for VPSes only, I think that was 1 or 2 years ago or so?

You might be right. Sorry. I should have said they haven't increased prices for existing dedicated servers since my direct experince is only there. Actually until about 3-4 years ago when the whole world went to shit, using a server for a year or two then upgrading to a better server for cheaper, was the norm. In that environment, you would naturally not have price increases.

I also don't think you're right that it never happened for the dedicated servers :) I'm only using Hetzner for dedicated servers, and found an email from 2022 where they mention price updates:

> Unfortunately, we are forced to increase the prices on these Server Auction models [...] old price 37.60 Euro -> 59.29 Euro, comes into effect 2022-03-03

Citing raising energy prices at that time.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#194

Post by draw_down »

jacquesm wrote: post #107
bootsmann wrote: post #99

A significant part of this is probably just the hockey-stick growth in the price of memory we have seen in the past 6 months. Would be surprised if this wasn't impacting their bottom line for maintenance.

There is another factor at play here: EU hosting providers that are not owned lock, stock & barrel are few and far between and Hetzner has a very nice sales representative in the White House.

[dead]

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#195

Post by Silhouette »

gck1 wrote: post #171
infecto wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why tax something that the market will figure out? This is normal and things will sort themself out.

We see that market is very irrational now and it can stay irrational for long enough to destroy everything we know in tech. By the time market figures things out, you may no longer have services, and hardware that you use daily. When such amounts of stupid money are pumped into a single industry, even if all AI companies went out of business tomorrow, it's going to take years for things to go back to normal. FWIW, I'…

What we're seeing is the natural conclusion of VC distortion in a market. There is so much money being pumped into AI speculatively now that it's hurting normal and sustainable businesses in other parts of the economy.

The solution might have to be mandatory rationing of some kind to avoid a situation where only a handful of AI giants are able to buy essential components. We can't just throw the rest of the economy under a bus to support the AI bubble for a few more months.

I'm working with a business right now that would like to buy some new servers for sensible, boring business reasons. It is having trouble because the prices from their normal suppliers are now extremely high - if the components are even available at all. This business has nothing to do with AI or Big Tech and yet it's at risk of being unable to continue normal operations in much the same way that a business would be affected if the phone networks were all switched off or the water supply to its office was cut. We regulate those industries because their continued reasonable operation is essential to make sure everyone else can continue to operate reasonably as well.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#196

Post by skrebbel »

alt227 wrote: post #10

I assume this is a symptom of the wider ai hardware issue. This is starting to feel a bit like universal paperclips to me, and we are on the verge of the next stage of industrialisation multiplication. I guess its either quantum computing or the hypnodrones which will get us out of this mess one way or another...

My compliments for the hypnodrones reference

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#198

Post by stephenr »

chasd00 wrote: post #123

If you just want an app server pick up an hp elitedesk off ebay and a ups and run it on your home inet connection.

IF you just want a Pizza, pour some tomato ketchup on sliced bread.

If you just want to pilot a 747, drive your car really fast at a skate ramp.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#199

Post by gck1 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #188
gck1 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see that market is very irrational now and it can stay irrational for long enough to destroy everything we know in tech. By the time market figures things out, you may no longer have services, and hardware that you use daily. When such amounts of stupid money are pumped into a single industry, even if all AI companies went out of business tomorrow, it's going to take years for things to go back to normal. FWIW, I'…

> it can stay irrational for long enough to destroy everything we know in tech What does this even mean? I know people on the internet sometimes exaggerate, but I cannot even begin to find a more charitable meaning with this, what exactly will be "destroyed" in "tech" because of prices going up for a year or two?

Here's an easy experiment to conduct: look around the room at your home and count all the devices that have a CPU, RAM, SSD or HDD.

Then take a look at your bank statement to see what are the services you pay for monthly that also require the same hardware.

Now, imagine that these devices or services can no longer procure RAM, SSD or HDD. There's no more available supply for these components, because this is what's happening.

Would you still be able to have these devices if they all broke tomorrow? What about your hypothetical Backblaze subscription? Would you still be able to have an off-site backup?

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#200

Post by seanmcdirmid »

piva00 wrote: post #157
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low yields means their production can cost more than they sell it for, which is not sustainable. They have to have yields good enough that they can make money, otherwise the government is just subsidizing a give away, which is fine if they don’t export them but wouldn’t make sense if they do.

That's where capitalism-with-Chinese-characteristics comes into play, since the CCP knows it's a capacity they want to get some independence from the government creates incentives to develop it until it becomes self-sustainable. They have a strategic goal which the government will support while at the same time letting competition do its thing, it's a step above from what other governments used to do with government-…

Why would the CPC (the correct acronym) subsidize cheap GPUs to America? You won’t see huawei GPUs here until their yields are decent enough to make it profitable.
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