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Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

nytimes.com

11–20 of 54 posts

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#11

Puerto Vallarta is on fire - seeing tons of videos on my timeline.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line?

At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will?

When is enough enough?

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#12

Puerto Vallarta is on fire - seeing tons of videos on my timeline.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will? When is enough enough?

Deciding is one thing, carrying out the decision is another. The Mexican government and security forces have been heavily compromised by the cartels for years. Some of the smaller law enforcement actions are a form of "kayfabe". Even if President Sheinbaum gives the order, there may not be enough honest and loyal personnel to carry it out.

Mexico is a failed state. We can argue about who bears responsibility but that is the reality today.

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#13

Puerto Vallarta is on fire - seeing tons of videos on my timeline.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will? When is enough enough?

I don't think that's possible in Mexico. There's too much power in the logistical networks that move things into the US. The demand is too great. Even if you kill every drug trafficker and gang member alive today and create huge prosperity the void will be filled by someone and they will be adversarial to the government and they will have to use extra judicial violence to enforce their position.

The cartel's presence in Mexico is extremely muted relative to their power.

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#14

Puerto Vallarta is on fire - seeing tons of videos on my timeline.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will? When is enough enough?

They’re overdue. Sheinbaum and other administrators probably didn’t act until now because they’re serving at the cartel’s pleasure. Now with America pressuring them, they’ve finally acted. But if they can’t bring the country under control, it’s going to sink the country and its legitimacy. You can’t have criminals burning airports, school buses, and grocery stores (things I saw videos of earlier).

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#15

Puerto Vallarta is on fire - seeing tons of videos on my timeline.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will? When is enough enough?

[deleted]

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#16
post #3

I imagine that if the U.S. assisted in any meaningful way ala the search for Escobar in Columbia we probably would have heard it by now.

The US confirmed they’re involved. They provided intel, and there’s speculation the Mexican Army was also using american weapons.

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will? When is enough enough?

They’re overdue. Sheinbaum and other administrators probably didn’t act until now because they’re serving at the cartel’s pleasure. Now with America pressuring them, they’ve finally acted. But if they can’t bring the country under control, it’s going to sink the country and its legitimacy. You can’t have criminals burning airports, school buses, and grocery stores (things I saw videos of earlier).

What if the destabilization of Mexico was the goal so that the US could justify military intervention?

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently as "retaliation" from the cartel because their boss was killed. Where do you draw the line? At what point do you decide to go full El Salvador / Bukele on violent cartel members who are willing to put cities on fire when they cannot human and drug traffic at will? When is enough enough?

I don't think that's possible in Mexico. There's too much power in the logistical networks that move things into the US. The demand is too great. Even if you kill every drug trafficker and gang member alive today and create huge prosperity the void will be filled by someone and they will be adversarial to the government and they will have to use extra judicial violence to enforce their position. The cartel's presence…

Just purely as a hypothetical thought exercise I wonder how infiltrated the US gov is by cartels.

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's possible in Mexico. There's too much power in the logistical networks that move things into the US. The demand is too great. Even if you kill every drug trafficker and gang member alive today and create huge prosperity the void will be filled by someone and they will be adversarial to the government and they will have to use extra judicial violence to enforce their position. The cartel's presence…

Just purely as a hypothetical thought exercise I wonder how infiltrated the US gov is by cartels.

Probably none.

I grew up in Mexico--spending a few years in or near Puerto Vallarta, specifically, funnily enough--and the M.O. of the cartel is overwhelmingly geared towards keeping a VERY low profile. Their whole purpose is to be quiet and subtle.

For every "loud" cartel action in MX, there are twenty that you never see, and then ten that exist as different recyclings and exaggerations and attack ads in the US to (now) perpetuate the current administration's favorite scapegoat, or (then) to prevent people from emigrating from the US.

It's been like that since '07 or so: take a story from Ciudad Juárez or Tamaulipas, then magnify it and convince Americans that the entire country is like that, so that they don't pay attention to the fact that they could get cheaper healthcare, out of pocket, by driving across the border to an equally well-equipped hospital... than they would for the cost of a single ambulance ride in the States... while living in a house that cost 10-100 times more than a house of the same size and quality across the border. All the while, the cartel hums happily along, truly wanting absolutely nothing to do with you.

Fear sells, and fear controls. Just like whatever series of headlines got you wanting to believe that they've infiltrated the American govt. ;)

Re: Mexican Forces Kill Nation's Most-Wanted Cartel Boss

#20
And thousands more will die due to the fully predictable and justified retaliation that follows. This doesn't meaningfully weaken the cartels, but forces them to respond in order to not compromise future safety.

Prioritizing showy executions over actual progress, words that should describe the cartels, not the government.

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