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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

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221–230 of 503 posts

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#221

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One big thing your missing is that there simply is no way imaginable that a regime change can happen without the US, it's simply impossible at this stage. I can certainly understand why many if not most Iranians want the US to intervene, it's simply the only way regime change is ever going to happen.w

I have lived through regime change in Eastern Europe in 1989. A year before the change, one cannot imagine the regime change. And yet, it did happen. Bloodlessly (except Romania). Any external meddling would have probably made it much bloodier. You can be assured most Iranians do NOT want US to intervene. How many Americans want China/Russia to intervene to 'help' you get rid of Trump? Get off your high horse and use…

Equating Trump to the systems in China/Russia is absurd. You have no concept of what losing free speech really means if you think that's an accurate comparison.

Not saying that what's happening with ICE is okay. But it's a very sheltered view to think that is at all equivalent to what happens in those countries if you actively protest against the govt.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#222

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[flagged]

> all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine > I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas activist Palestine ≠ Hamas Pro-Palestinian ≠ Pro-Hamas If you genuinely don't believe a significant number of people support the former but not the latter, I... don't even know what to tell you. It certainly says a lot that you can neither distinguish these two nor believe anyone else sees a distinction. >…

Maybe you should ask a few Palestinians before making such statements. Polls made by respected Palestinian surveyors show immense support for Hamas by Palestinians [1]. If you dig inti the polls, you’ll find great support in continuing the armed conflict. I’ll add: to the last man standing.

While I agree with you that Hamas and the Palestinians are not one thing, Hamas would not be able to operate the way it did (and still does to an extent), without broad support from the population.

[1] https://www.pcpsr.org/

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#223

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> The economic suffering has largely been inflicted deliberately by US sanctions. Which were imposed for work on atomic bomb. These sanctions didn’t come out of the blue.

US intelligence assessments on the question of whether Iran is building one keep publicly coming out as negative. People who keep repeating that Iran is building one are people who want to see Iran torn apart. Had Iran ACTUALLY been working on one all these decades, we wouldn't be at war with them now because they would have the ultimate deterrence and we'd be too scared. The very fact that we are bombing them every…

US intelligence flip flopped on this issue every Friday. Given the high stakes situation, I personally believe that Iran did work on nuclear weapons.

There is no reason whatsoever to enrich uranium beyond like 20% if its not for military purposes in such quantities.

Saying that others are NPCs is interesting. How do you know that you are not an NPC?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#224
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, I’ve never seen any left wing folks actively support the Iranian regime. I think the difference is what you noted, the US support for Israel vs. intervention in Iran. I, and many I know, would love to see the Iranian regime fall, just not via US regime change which tends to make things worse.

That's because most left wing Americans don't support the Iranian regime. People that ask "where are all the students on campus that were protesting Gaza" do so because taking action on injustice, in a way that demands accountability from their leaders, is an uncomfortable idea. For them, the purpose of taking action is largely to signal moral outrage, and making an aggrieved post on social media is the beginning and…

Good comment.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#225

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[flagged]

>> pro-Hamas activist You've let your true colors show through... People were angry at the world allowing a genocide to occur and at their own countries actively supporting that genocide. It was also a genocide going on for several years allowing momentum to build and anger to grow. The most recent Iranian uprising lasted a few weeks. I would be more upset that Trump told the poor Iranians to protest and that he woul…

Can you clarify what you mean by Genocide? It seems like this definition has become very fluid

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#226
post #187

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Arabs are about 2% of Iran’s population [1], and most of the rest will be insulted if you called them arabs to their face. Many see themselves better than arabs, and many more are mad about the arab occupation that brought Islam to take over the then-dominant faith of Zoroastrianism. The average Israeli doesn’t hate the average Iranian. Israeli social media is full of posts about how people hope to one day visit Tehr…

Is it fair to call it colonialism instead of occupation?

> Is it fair to call it colonialism instead of occupation?

EDIT: Nvm.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of crossover. Heck, one of our old neighbors growing up was a Iranian Baloch-Pakistani Baloch couple and according to them Baloch marriage across the border was extremely common. And Uzair Baloch had ties to both Iranian and Indian intelligence [0]. The Iran-Pakistan and the Iran-Afghanistan border is very porous because of how isolated Sistan-ve-Balochistan and much of Khorasan is from the rest of Ira…

Oh man I haven’t heard that name in a while. I still remember the Vice documentary going inside his house.

Haha yep, that documentary was wild - very old school Vice before they all got poached.

But anyhow, the entire thing has become a quagmire after CPEC was announced in 2015, because that forced India to confront the very real possibility of being enricled by China during a war.

This is what lead to India's quiet and now overt diplomacy with the Taliban, continued investment in Iran despite the sanctions, and building Saudi and UAE cofinanced megaprojects on the Indo-Pak border in GJ and RJ as well as in JK.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to only have a good track record in places with a democratic tradition. Some dictators have figured out you can just imprison and kill the opposition, and keep doing this until there is no more opposition. The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.

Don't say sadly. Don't further the indoctrination that violence is bad. It is a tool, it cannot be good or bad. States are the most prolific users of violence (even more when you also count potential/threatened, not yet materialized). Anyone who wants to claim that violence is bad has to oppose the existence of states. Violence is risky, dangerous, unpredictable, costly, etc. But those are practical and legal, not mo…

Some tools are definitely better than others. Also some tools are not "the right tool" for the job.

Fundamentally though I'm not sure I agree with you. Violence is often an emotional reaction. When violence is used as a tool it is usually (always?) used by bad people.

If it helps you reconcile my worldview, I absolutely oppose the existence of states.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#229

“To simplify greatly, the strategy of non-violence aims first to cause disruption (non-violently) in order both to draw attention but also in order to bait state overreaction. The state’s overreaction then becomes the ‘spectacular attack’ which broadcasts the movement’s message, while the group’s willingness to endure that overreaction without violence not only avoids alienating supporters, it heightens the contrast…

This works against relatively liberal governments. It didn’t work for the Tiananmen Square protestors in 1989 or for the intermittent Iranian protestors of the past couple decades because those regimes were willing to suppress those protests with overwhelming force. Fortunately, the Iranian protestors are likely to have some overwhelming force on their side soon.

I don't think the other governments that collapsed in 1989 in the face of public protest could be honestly described as "relatively liberal".

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want you elected leaders to save Palestinians (perfectly reasonable), but don't want your elected leaders to consider doing something out when thousands are being massacred in the street? You really think if the US wasn't supporting Israel, no one would have cared about Gaza?

> So you want you elected leaders to save Palestinians I don't want that. I want them to stop paying Israelis with our money to kill Palestinians. If they want to do atrocities, they can do it on their own dime.

Sorry, but it sounds crazy to me, I don’t know what to make of that.

Do you care about those people or not?

Sorry, unless I’m missing something, what you said just sounds like a cop out.

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