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Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

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Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#141

Post by qingcharles »

dehrmann wrote: post #120
aunty_helen wrote: post #60

Kinda glad this is the case. When people go out of their way to avoid common sense they should be punished. Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. There seems to be some kind of psychosis around it being the next oil and therefore greedy people want to get in early on. But this blinds them to the basic chemistry and physics.

> Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Ironically, the place hydrogen might work is airplanes where the energy density of batteries doesn't work.

The energy density doesn't work for now. Everybody hoping for that breakthrough, and battery aircraft are moving into certain sectors (drone delivery, air taxis etc).

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#142

Post by breve »

dehrmann wrote: post #135
breve wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Of course they can. Toyota sells BEVs. As time goes on BEVs will become a greater percentage of their sales.

The bZ4X? 10+ years after the Nissan Leaf?

And the bZ3, bZ5, bZ7, bZ3X, bZ Woodland, C-HR+, the Lexus RZ, and soon the Hilux EV:

https://electrek.co/2026/01/09/toyota-electric-pickup-images...

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#143

Post by nandomrumber »

dehrmann wrote: post #120
aunty_helen wrote: post #60

Kinda glad this is the case. When people go out of their way to avoid common sense they should be punished. Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. There seems to be some kind of psychosis around it being the next oil and therefore greedy people want to get in early on. But this blinds them to the basic chemistry and physics.

> Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Ironically, the place hydrogen might work is airplanes where the energy density of batteries doesn't work.

Has the hydrogen storage problem been solved yet?

Last time I checked it needs to be stored in cryo / pressure vessel and it also leaks through steel and ruins its structural properties in the process.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#144

Post by DangitBobby »

cbmuser wrote: post #104
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #10

I don't think hydrogen will ever be a thing for personal cars. Apart from the abysmal "well to wheel" efficiency it's also just such a hassle to create a fuel network for it. Gasoline is bad enough but a gas that will just leak away whatever you do seems like a stretch. It is just so much simpler with electricity. Pretty much every gas station already has it. No driving it around with trucks. Just maybe once install…

> It is just so much simpler with electricity. Yet the market still thinks differently. Lots of countries still keep subsidizing EV despite them already being mature technology for such a long time. We didn't have to subsidize the smart phone to make it successful, we shouldn't have to subsidize electric cars either.

ICE love is cultural, and there's a bunch of FUD from entrenched interests.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#145

Post by foota »

aunty_helen wrote: post #60

Kinda glad this is the case. When people go out of their way to avoid common sense they should be punished. Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. There seems to be some kind of psychosis around it being the next oil and therefore greedy people want to get in early on. But this blinds them to the basic chemistry and physics.

> Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground.

See: the Hindenburg disaster

afternote: There's the potential for an amazing pun in here, but I don't think I quite did the opportunity justice.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#146

Post by aunty_helen »

qingcharles wrote: post #141
dehrmann wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Ironically, the place hydrogen might work is airplanes where the energy density of batteries doesn't work.

The energy density doesn't work for now . Everybody hoping for that breakthrough, and battery aircraft are moving into certain sectors (drone delivery, air taxis etc).

One of the trade offs is that engines are actually ridiculously heavy. Compact, extreme high power electric motors are starting to be commercialised. But also, fuel burns so you lose weight as you’re flying whereas batteries stay the same.

Electric aviation is interesting but as someone who knows a bit about the industry, biofuels make more sense here.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#147

Post by foota »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #138
stbtrax wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still means nothing, what is the mileage or $/mi there?

Apparently 1kg of hydrogen is about 60 miles range, which seems like a lot, but apparently fuel cells are that good. Currently hydrogen fuel if you can get it is about 15 quid a kilo in the UK, giving a tank range of around 400 miles for £80. This makes it a little more expensive than diesel, considerably more expensive than petrol, and roughly the same price as electric. By comparison Autogas LPG is around 92p/litre…

> This makes it a little more expensive than diesel, considerably more expensive than petrol, and roughly the same price as electric

Is electric charging more expensive in the UK than petrol? That's nuts.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#148

Post by Spooky23 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #133
breve wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Of course they can. Toyota sells BEVs. As time goes on BEVs will become a greater percentage of their sales.

Toyota sells bad EVs and was the last OEM to offer one. It’s the most anti-EV OEM by far and engages/engaged in the most EV FUD.

The bZ4X was particularly bad. Toyota adopted a combo of NIH syndrome and DNGAF. They didn’t anticipate cold weather. The batteries lost like 30% of their capacity in the cold and the resale value of it tanked.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#149

Post by Lerc »

qingcharles wrote: post #141
dehrmann wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Ironically, the place hydrogen might work is airplanes where the energy density of batteries doesn't work.

The energy density doesn't work for now . Everybody hoping for that breakthrough, and battery aircraft are moving into certain sectors (drone delivery, air taxis etc).

Structural batteries were supposed to be the solution where the density wasn't so important. I don't really have a good understanding of the ration of fuel weight to structural weight in existing aircraft though.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#150

Post by mike50 »

adastra22 wrote: post #59
b112 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

h2 can be co-mingled with Ng and extracted with a molar filter at the other end. Ng pipelines are everywhere, so it makes perfect sense.

None of the pipes or valves are designed for hydrogen. It will steal leak. And leaking a very flammable gas isn’t great.

Let alone the compressors or the flow measurement equipment. Also significant portions of the pipesline (especially in neighborhoods / last mile) aren't metal anymore.
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