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CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

koreaherald.com

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Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#81

Post by delecti »

qup wrote: post #41
delecti wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market doing what it's supposed to do does not negate that the market segment has only been left open because of overly myopic businesses.

Why would we think businesses will always make the right move? They'll blunder. They'll do it even harder in the absence of competition.

Who said I thought businesses would always make the right move?

Businesses blunder. "The market" is just a set of observations, including that competitors will tend to take advantage of those blunders. It is not a failure of the market that businesses have blundered, nor surprising that it will happen occasionally, and neither I nor mrweasel implied otherwise.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#82

Post by zelphirkalt »

zozbot234 wrote: post #62
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't actually "lose" capacity, you just move to higher-valued special niches within the overall industry That's not what people mean by "lose" capacity. Suppose DRAM companies expand capacity because prices are high, then demand levels off, the price crashes, and they all go out of business except for the one in China which gets a government bailout. That's fine, right? We're not interested in making DRAM, tha…

The domestic industry is still there, only instead of mass-market DRAM it has started making higher-valued varieties of the same stuff. If there's a trade war, they can easily reconvert to making the mass-market stuff, just at much higher cost. You can't expect more than that, since they never really were as big or as low-cost as the lowest cost suppliers can be in normal times. That's not "losing" capacity, it's jus…

Higher valued varieties, or just higher priced varieties, that no one wants to buy?

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#83

Post by bigbadfeline »

7777777phil wrote: post #20

DDR4 going from $1.35 to $11.50 in a year shows this market was already distorted before CXMT showed up. Legacy DRAM is still over half of Samsung and SK hynix's production capacity. That's where the volume pain actually lands while they're betting everything on HBM4.

A near 10 times price rise of legacy chips and surely a lot higher profit increase couldn't motivate SKamsunix to increase their capacity for that segment, even more, they proudly informed the market about their decision to stop making DDR4 at the end of this year... to focus on even higher margin products.

But they aren't going to stop whining about China, no matter how much pain the market experiences.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#84

Post by skeeter2020 »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #17
someperson wrote: post #4

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

I personally fail to see the downside of any manufacturer selling forever at a loss, except for the manufacturer itself.

First, they're not selling at a loss; the huge price increases have allowed them to push aggrssively in the legacy markets. They're making "slightly smaller" profits than other manufacturers (of which there are now very few).

Second, they can drive out all competition and then have a captive audience for whatever prices they want, as the barriers to entry in these markets are very high. This is essentially what's happened with all higher-end manufacturing in the west over the past 30+ years.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#85

Post by hedgehog »

Neywiny wrote: post #67
DoctorOetker wrote: post #63

Is there a reason GPU's don't use insane "blocks" of sdcard slots (for massively parallel io) so the model weights don't need to pass through a limited PCI bus?

Yes. Let's do the math. The fastest sd cards can read at around 300 MB/s ( https://havecamerawilltravel.com/fastest-sd-cards/ ). Modern GPUs use 16 lanes of PCIe gen 5, which is 16x32Gb/s = 512Gb/s = 64 GB/s. Meaning you'd need over 200 of the fastest SD cards. So what you're asking is: is there a reason GPUs don't use 200 SD cards? And I can't think of any way that would work

SD is obviously the wrong interface for this but "High Bandwidth Flash" (stacked flash akin to HBM) is in development for exactly this kind of problem. AMD actually made a GPU with onboard flash maybe a decade ago but I think it was a bit early. Today I would love to have a pool of 50GB/s storage attached to the GPU.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#86

Post by esafak »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #30
riku_iki wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, looks like more analysis is needed to check which verticals are diversified and which are not, instead of throwing blanket list of everything.

Agree, worth analysing what is genuinely commodity. There are more elements to it though which can be sort of hard to explain. There are whole cultures and ways of thinking built around production. The children of engineers who worked on xyz v1.0 have a genuine advantage when its time to work on xyz v2.0. There is a lot of tacit knowledge in these engineering fields and you have a huge advantage in knowledge retentio…

https://atlas.hks.harvard.edu/

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#88

Post by 127 »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #5
mrweasel wrote: post #3

This feels like a classic business blunder. Focus hard on a single business segment, leaving an opening in the market for your competitors. Not because it wasn't profitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough for you, right now. Only downside is that now you've created an opening for a new player in the market. This feels like a short coming of western business/stock market thinking. Focusing on profit within th…

Ok but this is how the market is supposed to work. If the incumbents aren't doing what their customers want, then competitors can rise and fill the gap and compete. This isn't a shortcoming, it's a competitive market working as intended.

Only if you don't want or need any geopolitical gradient at all.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#90

Post by yellowapple »

dev1ycan wrote: post #74
joe_mamba wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO you see, we have to hate Chinese companies because they are unfair competitors since they get state funding from the Chinese government, unlike Intel, Micron, TSMC, ASML, Samsung who don't get state funding from the US, EU, Taiwan, ROK ... oh wait. Scratch that, we have to hate Chinese companies because they do business with the Chinese military, unlike Intel, Nvidia, Samsung who don't do business with the US and…

I know you are being sarcastic but the reason why we have to hate Chinese is simply because the standard of living of Americans depends on China not succeeding, simple as that.

Does it, though? If anything it seems like the opposite: China's success had directly enabled my standard of living as an American to be as high as it is.

I suppose it'd be true that the standard of living of some Americans depends on China not succeeding — specifically, those Americans who own corporations competing with Chinese firms — but I think they'll survive just fine with only 10 yachts instead of 15.

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