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How far back in time can you understand English?

deadlanguagesociety.com

31–40 of 432 posts

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#31
This is cool, I love the concept.

I wonder how much our understanding of past language is affected by survivorship bias? Most text would have been written by a highly-educated elite, and most of what survives is what we have valued and prized over the centuries.

For instance, this line in the 1800s passage:

> Hunger, that great leveller, makes philosophers of us all, and renders even the meanest dish agreeable.

This definitely sounds like the 1800s to me, but part of that is the romance of the idea expressed. I wonder what Twitter would have been like back then, for instance, especially if the illiterate had speech-to-text.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#32
post #20

At around 1200, Godzilla had a stroke

Don't get the reference compared to the text in the article for that timeframe. Is there something specific in there?

"Godzilla Had a Stroke Trying to Read This and Fucking Died" is a meme frequently posted in response to incomprehensible/extremely dumb posts.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#33

I can get through 1300 with some effort, but from 1200 I get nothing. Just a complete dropoff in that one time frame.

I was able to get the gist of 1200, with some effort. By paragraph:

P1: Unclear, but I think it's basically saying there is much to say about all that happened to him.

[Edit: the more I stare at it, the more sense it makes. "There is much to say about all that ? was wrought on me, ???. I shall never forget it, not while I live!"]

P2: Unexpectedly, a woman ("uuif", wife) appeared at "great speed" to save him. "She came in among the evil men..."

P3: "She slaughtered the heathen men that pinned me, slaughtered them and felled them to the ground. There was blood and bale enough and the fallen lay still, for [they could no more?] stand. As for the Maister, the [wrathe?] Maister, he fled away in the darkness and was seen no more."

P4: The protagonist thanks the woman for saving him, "I thank thee..."

On first reading, I didn't know what "uuif" was. I had to look that one up.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#34

I can get through 1300 with some effort, but from 1200 I get nothing. Just a complete dropoff in that one time frame.

Yeah same. The explanation at the bottom is interesting, lots of the words imported from Normandy drop off then, and the grammar changes more significantly.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#35
post #19

It will be interesting on how texting will change things down the road. For example, many people use 'u' instead of 'you'. Could that make English spelling in regards to how words are spoken worse or better then now ?

> worse or better then now?

*than.

Which I realize is an ironic correction in this context. I wonder if we'll lose a separate then/than and disambiguate by context.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#36
post #17

I am an ESL, but I can easily comprehend 1600. 1500 with serious effort.

At 1400, they add in the thorn "þ". If you don't know that's supposed to be "th", you'll get stuck there.

No, not that. The endings are different, the verbs are substantially different. AFAIK invention of printing had generally stabilizing effect on English.

It is not that I am incapable to understand old English, it is that 1600 is dramatically closer to modern than 1400 one; I think someone from 1600 would be able to converse at 2026 UK farmers market with little problems too; someone from 1400 would be far more challenged.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#37

Should be "how far back in time can you read English?" The language itself is what is spoken and the writing, while obviously related, is its own issue. Spelling is conventional and spelling and alphabet changes don't necessarily correspond to anything meaningful in the spoken language; meanwhile there can be large changes in pronunciation and comprehensibility that are masked by an orthography that doesn't reflect t…

Indeed, I remember being in Oxford in the 90s and an older man approached me and spoke to me in English and I couldn’t understand a word he said. My ex-wife, who’s an ESL speaker who speaks fluently and without an accent has trouble with English accents in general. Similarly, in Spanish, I find it’s generally easier for me to understand Spanish speakers than Mexican speakers even though I learned Mexican Spanish in school and it’s been my primary exposure to the language. Likewise, I generally have an easier time understanding South American speakers than Caribbean speakers and both sound little like Mexican Spanish. (The Spanish I understand most easily is the heavily accented Spanish of non-native Spanish speakers.)

Accents have diverged a lot over time and as I recall, American English (particularly the mid-Atlantic seaboard variety) is closer to what Shakespeare and his cohort spoke than the standard BBC accent employed in most contemporary Shakespeare productions).

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#39
post #26

Around 1300 to 1400. Some words were harder. But English isn't my first language either. So I guess that's alright. I guess I'd be fine in the 1500 in England. At least language wise.

In 1500 a lot of pronunciation would've been different too, it was in the middle of the Great Vowel Shift [1]. And of course while the UK is still (in)famous for its many accents and dialects, some nigh mutually unintelligible, the situation would've been even worse back then. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift

Or as I’ve heard it described humorously, the Big Vowel Movement.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#40
post #10
post #4

the experience of grendle in the original flashing between comprehensibility and jumbled letters is as far back as I have gone, but I read everything truely ancient that I can get my hands on from any culture in any language(translated) and try and make sense of it best as I can

I can comprehend most of the text back to 1300, if slower than Modern/Present Day English. It helps to know the old letter forms, and some of how Shakespearean (Early Modern), Middle, and Old English work. It also helps sounding it out. Past that, I'm not familiar with Old English enough to understand and follow the text.

Knowing a bit of German or Dutch helps as well.

I posted my amateur translation of 1200 here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47102874

At first it stumped me, but I spent some time on it and it started to become intelligible. I didn't look up any words until after I was done, at which point I looked up "uuif" (woman/wife) since I wanted to know what manner of amazing creature had saved the protagonist :D

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