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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#271

Post by 1718627440 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #176
anp wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any [] property can be [taken by the state] from its [original] owners simply by [those owners becoming more powerful than the state wants] When rephrased like the above, I think what you’re describing is pretty common in history. Many industries and assets have been nationalized when it serves the state’s interests. IMO the moral justification is that there is no ownership or private property except that which is…

Brutal, but understandable and well-argued. Thank you.

People outsource the brutality (to the government), so that they don't need to deal with it in their daily life. If we couldn't force companies to act in ways we want through a formal system, then the world would look much more brutal.

Re: Keep Android Open

#272

Post by rezonant »

surajrmal wrote: post #265
realusername wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer has to come from anti trust legislation. Android is too big for Google to control.

Under what law is that a legal or ethical thing to do? Why not suggest ios be taken away from Apple as well and windows from Microsoft?

I'd be fine with that too

Re: Keep Android Open

#273

Post by bdangubic »

1718627440 wrote: post #271
dmitrygr wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brutal, but understandable and well-argued. Thank you.

People outsource the brutality (to the government), so that they don't need to deal with it in their daily life. If we couldn't force companies to act in ways we want through a formal system, then the world would look much more brutal.

or alternatively we can just stop using products/services of said companies

Re: Keep Android Open

#274

Post by apitman »

paxys wrote: post #73

The fundamental problem is that we are relying on the good graces of Google to keep Android open, despite the fact that it often runs run contrary to their goals as a $4T for-profit behemoth. This may have worked in the past, but the "don't be evil" days are very far behind us. I don't see a real future for Andrioid as an open platform unless the community comes together and does a hard fork. Google can continue to d…

Google's moat with Android is the same as it's moat with Chrome: complexity. There are very few entities that could fork Android.

Re: Keep Android Open

#275

Post by hungryhobbit »

I question whether an OS that has always been controlled by Google has ever been open.

Sure parts of it were, but Google has always remained in control of Android. Anyone who expected that to change (in favor of more openness) hasn't been paying attention to the actions of tech companies for the past several decades.

Re: Keep Android Open

#276

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

tux1968 wrote: post #240
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should be able to install any software they want. That's very different than demanding someone make their software exactly how you desire. ie. You should be able to install your own operating system, you don't get to tell them how theirs should operate. I don't think the distinction exists the way you're trying to describe. If I should be allowed to install any software I want, surely that includes any .apk I…

No, I don't think you have the inerhent right to install any apk you desire, if their OS is designed to prohibit it. You should be free to try to alter their OS any way you want, but they should not have to make it easy. And the argument is the same lower down the stack. You shouldn't be able to tell someone how to design their firmware. The only problem is where the law prohibits us from trying to undo these restric…

> No, I don't think you have the inerhent right to install any apk you desire, if their OS is designed to prohibit it. You should be free to try to alter their OS any way you want, but they should not have to make it easy.

> And the argument is the same lower down the stack. You shouldn't be able to tell someone how to design their firmware.

Earlier, you claimed,

> They should be able to install any software they want.

but it sounds like actually you only mean that users should be allowed to futilely attempt it, not that there should actually be allowed to run software at will. If the firmware only allows running a signed OS, and that OS only allows running approved apps, then the user is not able to install any software they want.

Re: Keep Android Open

#277

Post by 1718627440 »

tux1968 wrote: post #130
microtonal wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that step by step ownership of your device is taken away. First most phones stopped supporting unlocking/relocking (thank Google for keeping the Pixel open), now the backtracked version of this, next the full version, etc.

Yes, that is a real problem. But it doesn't justify arguing uncritically or unrealistically in other areas. I think people should be free to do anything they want with their own devices. They should be able to install any software they want. That's very different than demanding someone make their software exactly how you desire. ie. You should be able to install your own operating system, you don't get to tell them h…

> You should be able to install your own operating system

So you draw the line between the bootloader and the OS. Other people draw the line between the OS and applications. Most (nearly all) people can't write either, so for them it is just part of the device.

> you don't get to tell them how theirs should operate.

I paid for it, and I allow it to be legal in the jurisdiction I (partly) control. So it is not only theirs anymore.

Re: Keep Android Open

#278

Post by gspr »

zie wrote: post #198
iririririr wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're a really vanilla user then. wake me up when there's an adblocker on an iphone.

Thankfully you don't really need an adblocker for apps on an iPhone. Your browser could use one, but thankfully those do exist :) That said, I want off the iOS ecosystem, but Google has basically said guess what? We are going the way of Apple, so we don't care about you either. So right now there isn't really anywhere else to go. I'm going to keep trucking in iOS for now, but I hope I find something better soon.

> Thankfully you don't really need an adblocker for apps on an iPhone.

That's for me to decide, thank you very much.

Re: Keep Android Open

#279

Post by colordrops »

RussianCow wrote: post #185
mistercheph wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux MSFT Market cap: 2.951T AAPL Market cap: 3.883T

You've made my point. How many people use Linux as their primary desktop or mobile OS? And that's arguably the world's largest open source project.

Enough. Linux has finally caught on. I literally never use windows or mac and life has been fine.
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