Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools • Hacker News Board

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#61

Post by bitshiftfaced » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:49 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #29

Note when they say "shot up the national rankings" they mean relative, since Alabama remained static on scores, but others slipped. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/reports/reading/2024/g4_8/... https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/reports/mathematics/2024/g... They might be better looking at what the states going down were doing and using that for (anti-) lessons as maintaining a score hardly seems like a rousing succ…

I disagree. It shows that the policies that they put into place gave them resistance to whatever it is about the pandemic that reduced scores everywhere else. As the article laid out, Alabama didn't just keep doing the same things.

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#62

Post by CGMthrowaway » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:50 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #56

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their solution is that you must read at a 3rd grade level in order to get promoted to 4th grade Can someone explain why we ever stopped doing that? It does seem like a lot of public school advocates these days push simply for graduate rate, to the exclusion of meeting common sense aptitude standards. To the point where it is having a downstream effect on universities having to tie up an unreasonable amount of resour…

> Can someone explain why we ever stopped doing that? Talk to someone educated in the 1950s and 1960s and you'll understand. There was always one or two kids in the class who were 2-3 years older than everyone else, because they frequently had to repeat grades. It caused a problem for them because they weren't with their peers, age-wise. (As opposed to the kid who was born too close to the cut-off and held back a yea…

I knew kids in public school that were held back a year. Never more than one, or if two they would go to some other school.

I also went to private school. There, it was clear that every student was expected to advance every year, but that each had to also truly meet the standard to advance. No teacher would let you fall behind, and any and all actions needed were taken. I see this as the #1 benefit of private school, to be honest - if a student does not succeed, the teachers do not get paid (you pull your kid from the school)

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#63

Post by ch4s3 » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:52 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #56

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their solution is that you must read at a 3rd grade level in order to get promoted to 4th grade Can someone explain why we ever stopped doing that? It does seem like a lot of public school advocates these days push simply for graduate rate, to the exclusion of meeting common sense aptitude standards. To the point where it is having a downstream effect on universities having to tie up an unreasonable amount of resour…

> Can someone explain why we ever stopped doing that? Talk to someone educated in the 1950s and 1960s and you'll understand. There was always one or two kids in the class who were 2-3 years older than everyone else, because they frequently had to repeat grades. It caused a problem for them because they weren't with their peers, age-wise. (As opposed to the kid who was born too close to the cut-off and held back a yea…

My understanding is that almost none of the kids falling under new retention laws are being held back more than twice and very few more than once. Most of these laws also mandate evidence based literacy instruction which are far more effective than what has been the norm for many years.

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#64

Post by rawgabbit » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #25

kotaKat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No child left behind”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act

Can you elaborate? The wiki says NCLB is "outcomes based education" which is further defined as "By the end of the educational experience, each student should have achieved the goal." You seem to be suggesting it's the opposite though?

Anecdotally teachers complained they were forced into a straight jacket. “To teach to the test.” In many troubled schools, the problems run deep. Absent parents, crime, drugs, abuse etc. Many teachers felt they better served children if they could teach in a manner of their choosing.

https://nrcgt.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/953/2015/04...

Page 95. “The limitations that resulted from the curricular requirements also affected the use of classroom resources. In some cases, there appeared to be particular books, teaching models, and other resources that were mandated in the curriculum. An observation following a teacher interview illuminates the inability of teachers to include non- prescribed resources: "She wanted to be able to use more chapter/trade books and it was not possible because of all of the excerpts and mandates of basal instruction" (IA, WSRSD, ES, Carey, FN, #8, p. 2). The teachers seemed to want greater curricular control. While they indicated that they did have control over their instructional methods, they appeared to be inhibited by the lack of authority and decision-making power with regard to the curriculum.”

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#65

Post by orwin » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #20

swaits wrote: post #6

Their solution is that you must read at a 3rd grade level in order to get promoted to 4th grade. It brought them from basically the worst State to the 30th percentile in reading for 4th graders. So, common sense? If you’re requiring proficiency in order to promote, then I’d expect to see significantly better results than this. It’s noteworthy that they’re still basically the worst in 8th grade reading and math. Might…

>Their solution is that you must read at a 3rd grade level in order to get promoted to 4th grade Can someone explain why we ever stopped doing that? It does seem like a lot of public school advocates these days push simply for graduate rate, to the exclusion of meeting common sense aptitude standards. To the point where it is having a downstream effect on universities having to tie up an unreasonable amount of resour…

My country did the same. The answer is simple. Education research. Being one year behind isn't a big deal (and use not to be), but having a few 10-11 yo in the same class as 8 yo was detrimental to everyone. We then created special classes for people with learning disabilities, which is still detrimental to those kids, but at least the impact is limited.

Academic prowess shouldn't be such a social booster/crusher, especially pre-PhD, but it is, so we have to deal with it, and that mean not making kids repeat classes too much (two decade ago, it was max a year below 11, max two after that in my country, nowadays it's just avoided as much as possible).

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#66

Post by nixon_why69 » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:56 PM UTC

walthamstow wrote: post #58

nixon_why69 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to gruez, the chart was made by the economist and not by them. To be less fair to the economist, "adjusted by poverty level" is a heck of a spin, we've had many generations as a developed nation now, your state poverty level is caused by your state education outcomes. And that's without even speculating about what "demographic factors" means or implies.

> we've had many generations as a developed nation now Have you? Jim Crow apartheid was in place in my parents lifetime. I don't care how many cars and ship you make, that ain't developed.

You're right, but "don't blame us, we were investing our energy in oppressing the blacks" isn't really the greatest excuse for cotton belt states when it comes to their education and gdp numbers.

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#67

Post by hollywood_court » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 2:57 PM UTC

squeefers wrote: post #52

hollywood_court wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arab and Cullman are the two that still operate like this based on my own anecdotes. But most of the Birmingham suburbs could probably also be classified as sundown towns. Arab/Skant City is the most 'in your face' example. They don't try to hide it at all up there. Shout out to Granny's Restaurant in Skant City. Best breakfast in the area.

when i hear of shit like that its in places like rural india. to hear it still happens in 2026 is proof america is in the dark ages. and how anyone lets it happen either.... id rather live in a third world country than that

It’s only going to get worse as long as our current administration is in place. They’ve made the bigots feel comfortable and safe expressing their hatred.

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#68

Post by squeefers » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 3:01 PM UTC

the_sleaze_ wrote: post #45

squeefers wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your state poverty level is caused by your state education outcomes. bad teachers dont make an area poor. a poor area doesnt have the money for good teachers, youve got it the wrong way around.

No, gp is correct. Good public education is a profoundly good indicator of economic prosperity, though it is a long term investment.

> Good public education is a profoundly good indicator of economic prosperity

well yeah.... because for good schools you need good money. no money = bad schools. good schools dont appear in poor areas. thats the connection.

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#69

Post by squeefers » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 3:02 PM UTC

hollywood_court wrote: post #67

squeefers wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when i hear of shit like that its in places like rural india. to hear it still happens in 2026 is proof america is in the dark ages. and how anyone lets it happen either.... id rather live in a third world country than that

It’s only going to get worse as long as our current administration is in place. They’ve made the bigots feel comfortable and safe expressing their hatred.

but its not really stopped ever. even when obama was in he did nothing about it

Re: Alabama offers three tricks to fix poor urban schools

#70

Post by bluGill » Thu, Feb 19, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

prodigycorp wrote: post #24

Can someone steel man the reason for not teaching phonics? Among the different trends in teaching, de-emphasizing/abandoning phonics is counterintuitive, bordering moronic. But I do not claim to be more than a pea brain myself.

English is not really a phonic language. The is some, but the rules are not clear - why is phone not fone? Many letters can have more than one sound, and it is arbitrary which is chosen. Different English speakers even have different sounds / ways to pronounce a word.

Not that phonics is useless, but it isn't as helpful as it should be. We need spelling reform first - which probably needs to start with a more general spoken language reform, and that doesn't seem like it will get anywhere for political reasons.