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Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

ozar.me

71–80 of 290 posts

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#71
post #52

"The diagonally-oriented camera is strange. In the one orientation it’s optimized for, it’s slightly annoying. In any other orientation, it’s almost intolerable. " "The built-in front-facing camera for Skype is angled so that it’ll work great when the kickstand is open, but again, only for Danny DeVito, or maybe for people who want to show off their chests in Skype." ------ "The Touch Cover is one of the Surface’s bi…

The problem with Windows "apps" is that they are made inefficient and un-optimized by default , because they were targeted at much more powerful processors, and as processors became even more powerful, they didn't care about increasing the performance or at least keeping it at the previous level (and not slower). Developers never really cared about netbooks, and these devices, either with ARM processors or with Atom,…

> The problem with Windows "apps" is that they are made inefficient and un-optimized by default, because they were targeted at much more powerful processors...

Except the whole article was written about the Surface RT, and there are only a handful of first party desktop windows app allowed.

Every other app you ever install will be made brand new to support the new tablet ecosystem which will certainly target processors such as the one on the surface rt.

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#72

I've had mine since 10AM yesterday; and I'm actually fairly pleased, at least for effectively being a new platform. Thoughts, in no particular order: - Love the build. Very solid overall. - 16:9 means it's one long tablet. Oddly, it's actually fairly usable in portrait; can't say the same for my old 16:10 Transformer (maybe just better balanced?) - The touch cover is, like most say, surprisingly usable. Desperately n…

Regarding the Twitter clients, I tried Tweetro on my Windows 8. Haven't gotten to use it too much, but it seems kinda cool. Especially the link preview. I'm wondering if you tried it, what's your opinion on it? As an aside this brings me to one of my problems with Windows 8. When I was in Desktop mode and I first discovered the Side Bar (forgot what it's called) and saw the Share Button, I knew from before that you c…

Tweetro is one of the better ones, but it has an aggravating habit of failing to tweet for no apparent reason, on a fairly regular basis.

Not related to the share charm, but you can snap Tweetro from the app switcher to the side like so[0]

[0] https://www.dropbox.com/s/9x8pothn1h3qf1i/Screenshot%20%288%...

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He encountered problems typing at a reasonable speed, saving a Word document, videoconferencing, and opening the mail client. They sound like issues that can be corrected with a software update, but I don't think they're specific to his workflow.

Compare these activities to the way in which the Surface's competition handles them...e.g typing, creating documents, video conferencing, and configuring email on an iPad. The author's expectations were that the Surface would be as productive as a Windows laptop. Nobody expects an iPad to be as productive as a MacBook.

Brent the author here. No, I did not expect the Surface to be as productive as a Windows laptop, but I did expect that Word would be able to keep up with me while I type - just as any other modern device is. I'm not asking to do 3D renderings, just to type a document.

For what it's worth, I also wrote about why I was preordering it here: http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-i-preordered-a-microsoft-surface-...

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, HN is quick to yell "fanboy" at anything critical of a direct competitor to an Apple product. But from the multiple Surface reviews posted here over the past few days, it seems like the consensus (even among those that aren't labeled "fanboys") is that the surface has considerable drawbacks while costing more than an iPad.

>> while costing more than an iPad and where did you get that from?

I would guess he's thinking of the 3rd gen iPad price, which was $479 if I recall correctly (for the 16GB version; the 32GB Surface has around 20GB of usable space).

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#75
post #52

"The diagonally-oriented camera is strange. In the one orientation it’s optimized for, it’s slightly annoying. In any other orientation, it’s almost intolerable. " "The built-in front-facing camera for Skype is angled so that it’ll work great when the kickstand is open, but again, only for Danny DeVito, or maybe for people who want to show off their chests in Skype." ------ "The Touch Cover is one of the Surface’s bi…

The problem with Windows "apps" is that they are made inefficient and un-optimized by default , because they were targeted at much more powerful processors, and as processors became even more powerful, they didn't care about increasing the performance or at least keeping it at the previous level (and not slower). Developers never really cared about netbooks, and these devices, either with ARM processors or with Atom,…

My understanding however from the "Windows 8 Doesn’t Want Your App. Try Again Later" post was that as part of the approval process, MSFT does automatically test the apps in a low performance environment, and if they don't meed specific benchmarks there (example in the post was startup or shutdown time of 2 second, but I can't remember exactly and am on mobile), they will reject the app and tel you to work on it.

So if that's really the case, maybe they are selective with it. Maybe they don't apply the same rigor to their own apps, which would be a shame since you'd think they have to set an example.

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#76

I want a video of people using these as lap tops. That's my biggest fear about springing for something like these. Even RT could be tolerable with the right apps as a remote machine with that keyboard, similar to what people do with Android+Transformer. I can program on it, work on remote machines. That having been said, assuming it's somewhat usable on a lap, I'll wait for the Pro too, I have several things that nee…

> I want a video of people using these as laptops. Isn't it exactly what he's doing in the videos? edit: the second videos (saving a document in word) also makes many tap target seem laughably small compared to... the guy's fingers to start with. Am I dreaming?

Brent the author here. Yes, the Office tap targets are indeed laughably small. I recorded a few versions of these videos trying to get the taps right. I didn't want to upload those because it would look like I'm purposely trying to tap in the wrong places, and then I'd get flamed for that - when in reality, the targets are just too small.

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He encountered problems typing at a reasonable speed, saving a Word document, videoconferencing, and opening the mail client. They sound like issues that can be corrected with a software update, but I don't think they're specific to his workflow.

Compare these activities to the way in which the Surface's competition handles them...e.g typing, creating documents, video conferencing, and configuring email on an iPad. The author's expectations were that the Surface would be as productive as a Windows laptop. Nobody expects an iPad to be as productive as a MacBook.

That's just not accurate. It's not unreasonable to expect your tablet to keep up with your typing, or opening the Mail app to not take a full minute.

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the Twitter clients, I tried Tweetro on my Windows 8. Haven't gotten to use it too much, but it seems kinda cool. Especially the link preview. I'm wondering if you tried it, what's your opinion on it? As an aside this brings me to one of my problems with Windows 8. When I was in Desktop mode and I first discovered the Side Bar (forgot what it's called) and saw the Share Button, I knew from before that you c…

Tweetro is one of the better ones, but it has an aggravating habit of failing to tweet for no apparent reason, on a fairly regular basis. Not related to the share charm, but you can snap Tweetro from the app switcher to the side like so[0] [0] https://www.dropbox.com/s/9x8pothn1h3qf1i/Screenshot%20%288%...

I'll admit I haven't used it as much, but I was quite impressed by the looks of it. Yes the snap solves the problem, however you can still only share to that snapped app. Maybe we'll see a change in the behaviour of the Share charm in a future update.

Another problem I've had with the Mail app (though this is Windows 8, so not sure if it's in RT as well) is that you can't just use the Mail/Calendar apps like how you'd use them on an iOS device, where you can just add your gmail as an accunt and then you have your calendars and email. I'd love to be proven wrong, and for there to exist a way to do this though, without having to create another Microsoft account. And I saw another, as I've used my recently revived hotmail to log into the Store and all.

Re: Why I'm returning my Microsoft Surface RT

#80

I've had mine since 10AM yesterday; and I'm actually fairly pleased, at least for effectively being a new platform. Thoughts, in no particular order: - Love the build. Very solid overall. - 16:9 means it's one long tablet. Oddly, it's actually fairly usable in portrait; can't say the same for my old 16:10 Transformer (maybe just better balanced?) - The touch cover is, like most say, surprisingly usable. Desperately n…

Nice review. I've spent the last 6 weeks working on a Windows 8 app. I've been using a dell box and samsung tablet with visual studio and a wired mouse/wireless keyboard so I can speak first hand about what it's like to use the 'desktop' part of Windows 8 for serious work.

Disclaimer: I've been a web developer for 4 years and have used a Mac during that whole time. Before that the only experience I had with windows was a typing class in high school and casually using it at people's houses. I don't have a bunch of Windows experience. This was the first native windows app that I've ever created. Also I've been using a full blown copy of WIndows 8 which is different than WinRT. Any of the mentions of 'desktop' software below won't run on a WinRT device.

Truthfully I'm not entirely sold on the idea of having a full blown computer in a tablet. Sure if was convenient for me to travel with the tablet and then when I got to a desk just plug in a mouse and attach a wireless keyboard but something still seemed incorrect.

More than once I was showing a workmate some code and absentmindedly touched the screen which highlighted the code and rearranged the order or cut it to the clipboard. Granted I'll develop the muscle memory to deal with that issue over time but I thought it worth noting that my initial reaction to having a 'full' computer on a tablet was negative.

Though I agree with you 100% that there is more "Windows" in here than we've been led to believe. In fact I found that only when launching apps did I interact with the metro start screen. Other than that I could just alt+tab right past it. All of the apps that I was using (sans the app that I was actually developing) were 'desktop' apps: Internet Explorer 10, File Explorer, Visual Studio 2012, cigwin and Tortoise SVN.

FWIW I like the traditional desktop version of IE10 much better than the new metro version of IE10. Which version of IE10 do you prefer? Have you done any app development?

The app that we created was built on the HTML5/CSS3/Javascript stack.Just like a webapp you build the UI in HTML/CSS and wire it together with javascript. There's a suite of UI elements in the WinJS.UI namespace that you can quickly build the UI with. You can also access the hardware and the Windows Runtime from javascript APIs.

The development experience was a real eye opener. The high level take away is that all the talk over the past 5 years about HTML5 eventually being used to create applications that could rival their native counterparts is finally coming to fruition.

You can build a Windows 8 app in either the native or the web stack and they will have nearly 100% feature parity. I've been considering making the switch from being a web developer to being a native app developer recently because I've been feeling limited by the browser. I've just wanted to get deeper access to the hardware and the OS and windows 8 fulfils that need.

Unfortunately they completely mangle the DOM and inject insane amounts of useless markup and attribute/values which make the semantic web geek inside of you die a little each time the app compiles and runs.

A small example--in my code I had a button that was a child of a div. It was literally two lines of HTML. After the app 'built' I couldn't get an event listener that was listening for an event on the child button to fire.

I used the DOM inspector to check out what was happening and not only had the compiler injected about 20 lines of html around each of my elements complete with dozens of data-foo attributes—it didn't even maintain the parent/child relationship from my markup! You can imagine how disconcerting it is to doubt that the core relationships of your markup aren't going to be maintained.

If you have time check out the app I helped created-Trulia for Windows 8: http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-US/app/trulia-real-estat...

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