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AWS outage summary

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31–40 of 66 posts

Re: AWS outage summary

#31
post #10

AWS sure does put out amazing post mortems. If only they'd make their status page more useful ...

How is the status page not useful ? It's so simple to understand. Green if everything is fine. Green if there are intermittent problems. Green if nothing works.

And if things are really broken, green with a little "i" icon next to it.

Re: AWS outage summary

#32
post #11

> We are already in the process of making a few changes to reduce the interdependency between ELB and EBS to avoid correlated failure in future events and allow ELB recovery even when there are EBS issues within an Availability Zone. This is music to my ears. We switched away from ELBs because of this dependency. Hopefully this statement means Amazon is working on completely removing any use of EBS from ELBs. We came…

Enthusiastically seconded. We stopped using EBS for anything 12 months ago and got through this outage with very little pain (previous AWS incidents had us cleaning up for weeks afterwards).

Re: AWS outage summary

#34
post #2

I am always astonished by how many layers these bugs actually have. It's easy to start out blaming AWS, but if anyone can realistically say they could have anticipated this type of issue at a system level, they're deluding themselves.

Full disclosure: I work for an AWS competitor. While none of the specific AWS systemic failures may themselves be foreseeable, it is not true that issues of this nature cannot be anticipated: the architecture of their system (and in particular, their insistence on network storage for local data) allows for cascading failure modes in which single failures blossom to systemic ones. AWS is not the only entity to have ma…

I believe the damage of cascading failures was also masterfully exposed during your talk on QCon Last year: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Debugging-Production-Syst...

Re: AWS outage summary

#35
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure: I work for an AWS competitor. While none of the specific AWS systemic failures may themselves be foreseeable, it is not true that issues of this nature cannot be anticipated: the architecture of their system (and in particular, their insistence on network storage for local data) allows for cascading failure modes in which single failures blossom to systemic ones. AWS is not the only entity to have ma…

Very wise comment IMHO. More complex = more complex failure modes. The only way to improve is Less complex. Well also probably local storage has a number of other advantages from the point of view of performance.

I don't think that there is an obvious way to make it less complex. But complexity is not inherently bad. Internet is very complex, yet it is robust.

What feels wrong here, is that Amazon systems are too trusting to other Amazon internal systems.

Re: AWS outage summary

#36
post #28

I dunno about you, but I could use a TL;DR for this: 1. They fucked up an internal DNS change and didn't notice 2. Internal systems on EBS hosts piled up with messages trying to get to the non-existent domain 3. Eventually the messages used up all the memory on the EBS hosts, and thousands of EBS hosts began to die simultaneously 4. Meanwhile, panicked operators trying to slow down this tidal wave hit the Throttle Ev…

Sounds like a perfect storm [of imperfection].

Re: AWS outage summary

#37
post #28

I dunno about you, but I could use a TL;DR for this: 1. They fucked up an internal DNS change and didn't notice 2. Internal systems on EBS hosts piled up with messages trying to get to the non-existent domain 3. Eventually the messages used up all the memory on the EBS hosts, and thousands of EBS hosts began to die simultaneously 4. Meanwhile, panicked operators trying to slow down this tidal wave hit the Throttle Ev…

I'm looking at this a bit differently. My reading of this is "a series of subtle and bizarre failures combined in a way which nobody could ever have anticipated". I think I'm a pretty good architect and coder, but I would never claim that I could design a system which couldn't fail in this sort of way -- in fact, "a background task is unable to complete, resulting in it gradually increasing its memory usage, ultimately causing a system to fail" is the one-line description of an outage Tarsnap had in December of last year.

Re: AWS outage summary

#38
post #28

I dunno about you, but I could use a TL;DR for this: 1. They fucked up an internal DNS change and didn't notice 2. Internal systems on EBS hosts piled up with messages trying to get to the non-existent domain 3. Eventually the messages used up all the memory on the EBS hosts, and thousands of EBS hosts began to die simultaneously 4. Meanwhile, panicked operators trying to slow down this tidal wave hit the Throttle Ev…

My general take on their writeup was that they have too many services that depend on EBS working. They should try to find ways to decouple critical services like loadbalancers and Amazon RDS from EBS.

Re: AWS outage summary

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure: I work for an AWS competitor. While none of the specific AWS systemic failures may themselves be foreseeable, it is not true that issues of this nature cannot be anticipated: the architecture of their system (and in particular, their insistence on network storage for local data) allows for cascading failure modes in which single failures blossom to systemic ones. AWS is not the only entity to have ma…

I believe the damage of cascading failures was also masterfully exposed during your talk on QCon Last year: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Debugging-Production-Syst...

Start at ~10:20 for the cascading failures.

Very entertaining IMO. But I would suggest the speaker cut the off-hand ostracism of large groups of people.

Re: AWS outage summary

#40
post #38
post #28

I dunno about you, but I could use a TL;DR for this: 1. They fucked up an internal DNS change and didn't notice 2. Internal systems on EBS hosts piled up with messages trying to get to the non-existent domain 3. Eventually the messages used up all the memory on the EBS hosts, and thousands of EBS hosts began to die simultaneously 4. Meanwhile, panicked operators trying to slow down this tidal wave hit the Throttle Ev…

My general take on their writeup was that they have too many services that depend on EBS working. They should try to find ways to decouple critical services like loadbalancers and Amazon RDS from EBS.

Databases (RDS) do need storage and EBS is their tool for that. If something else was better, it should replace EBS across products.

To your point, w/o knowing architecture, seems like ELB run state could likely be on ephemeral storage (if ELBs are EC2 instances) backed by configs on S3 unless run state is crucial across resets. If not instances, maybe use S3 directly, or ElastiCache.

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