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GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

blog.tomaszdunia.pl

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Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#751

Post by monksy »

askonomm wrote: post #554
edoceo wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the PIN change? How to issue new key if needed? How does it integrate with the voting?

Voting, much like all other things in Estonia such as getting married/divorced, doing taxes, signing documents, starting/closing companies, notary dealings, bank dealings, selling/buying vehicles, and many more things I can't even think of right now are entirely done via the digital ID that every citizen has. This means that you authorize/sign actions with it, including voting, because only you have your private keys…

> in your phone's sim card,

Phones and sim cards a lot more temporary than ID cards. I don't know of a lot of theves that target ID cards for their authorization uses. Phones... people will steal those.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#754

Post by monksy »

dotancohen wrote: post #318
jlokier wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do it so they don't have to stand up their own push servers I don't agree with this dependency on being in good standing with Google either. But there is a technical reason that isn't wanting to avoid using their push servers. It is about battery usage and radio bandwidth. Keeping open an idle connection over WebSocket, long-poll HTTP or TCP/IP needs regular pings (typically 30 seconds are used), one ping per…

Why does a banking app that I'm not currently using need to ping a server occasionally? When I want to do banking I'll open the app, do my business, then close the app. A banking application does not need push notifications.

That is clearly not the opinon of the product owners and business people. They believe that they own your device, data, and location of when you use it and how you use it. If they want to tell you about their new terrible financial product they will try to force it on you.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#755

Post by palata »

fsflover wrote: post #736
palata wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a contradiction. There is nothing "minimal" about a requirement that excludes every device but one. I don't get your logic. Requirements are a choice. It's very easy to create requirements that exclude every device but one. Example: "It has to be the Samsung Galaxy S23". Done. Now you can disagree with those requirements, but that's completely different from saying that the requirements are wrong.

I disagree that such requirements are minimal. Nothing prevents running GrapheneOS on a device with lower requirements. It's a questionable choice by the developers restricting the choice for users.

Aren't requirements defined as the set of minimal constraints that are needed for something to be deemed acceptable by those who define that set?

Again, requirements are not laws of physics. As the author of a project, I am free to make up my own requirements, and when something doesn't meet them, then I am free to reject it because it does not meet my requirements...

If you go to a bank and they refuse to lend you money because you don't meet their requirement, you will have a hard time convincing them that their requirement are wrong and that they should instead replace it with yours :-).

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#756

Post by monksy »

amaccuish wrote: post #494
eloisius wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> require authentication using their phone app And banks often have their apps region locked, so if you live abroad or have accounts in more than one country, you’re fucked.

Cough cough, Nationwide UK. I emailed them, they said they had no plans to make the Nationwide UK app available globally on the iOS App Store.

File a complaint to the financial services. They are locking you out from their services.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#757

Post by monksy »

izacus wrote: post #524
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't going to be the case universally. If my bank cuts off my access from my browser-on-linux setup, then I'm finding an alternative bank (hopefully some will always exist), which I don't say lightly since I've been with my current bank since I was old enough to have a bank account.

You'll quickly find out - as people are finding out in EU nowadays - that *no* bank will go through the trouble of fighting checklist security auditors to keep your linuxes working. Wait till you find out that your prefered Linux bank won't have the same mortgage terms as you'd like and you'll be running to buy a Google/Apple phone to get those % down.

Keep complaining to the regulators that you're being locked out of your account. Sue them and keep escalating. Forcing you into a system where you have to pay, maintain, etc for access is often not legal.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#758

Post by ysnp »

fsflover wrote: post #548
no-reply wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOS has minimum hardware requirements and most of the available smartphones don't meet them

This is a contradiction. There is nothing "minimal" about a requirement that excludes every device but one. Also some people (me) value independence from Google more than the highest degree of security (which relies on Google hardware).

> Also some people (me) value independence from Google more than the highest degree of security (which relies on Google hardware).

The requirements are indeed minimal. I have no problem with your valuing independence from Google, but please don't misrepresent GrapheneOS' requirements as the highest degree of security because not even they have said that. They have actually mentioned wanting to be more involved in the hardware/firmware side to implement more pro-user changes.

They are mostly basic requirements that Android OEMs should be embarrassed not to meet in 2026.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#759

Post by ysnp »

fsflover wrote: post #736
palata wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a contradiction. There is nothing "minimal" about a requirement that excludes every device but one. I don't get your logic. Requirements are a choice. It's very easy to create requirements that exclude every device but one. Example: "It has to be the Samsung Galaxy S23". Done. Now you can disagree with those requirements, but that's completely different from saying that the requirements are wrong.

I disagree that such requirements are minimal. Nothing prevents running GrapheneOS on a device with lower requirements. It's a questionable choice by the developers restricting the choice for users.

It is not the job of GrapheneOS to lower their standards and deplete their resources supporting every phone under the sun. We already have LineageOS for that. I would rather not be snarky but I don't understand why people keep blaming GrapheneOS instead of the OEMs. Almost every single time.
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