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SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

colinfahey.com

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Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#11
This reminds of me playing Hearts on a PC. You can try really hard to get a good score, or you can get the worst score possible and win the round[1]. I didn't read the whole article, but it was pretty clear that to get the lowest possible score you have to know the correct response to every question. (A little less black & white for the essay section, but you get the gist.)

Colleges should have a lottery admission available to people who can get a perfect score on the SAT/ACT. Students would inadvertently study harder and learn proportionally more than if they were to study hard enough to get a perfect score.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts#Shooting_the_moon

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#12

I admit, I didn't read the whole thing, it was super long. I personally think the ACT (and by association the SAT) is a better measure of intelligence than a GPA, and I would love it if companies used that more often as a filtering metric. Obviously, grades in general aren't the best metric, but they're simple and generally pretty reliable. If I were hiring somebody, I'd look at a combination of test scores and perso…

Anything involving a test will simply measure one's skill at taking tests instead of what the test is actually about. If this wasn't true at some point in the past, it's certainly true now.

Furthermore, seeing as you didn't read the whole thing, you would have missed the part where the SAT itself explicitly states that it is intended not to measure intellect, but rather how well one would perform at a university.

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#13

I admit, I didn't read the whole thing, it was super long. I personally think the ACT (and by association the SAT) is a better measure of intelligence than a GPA, and I would love it if companies used that more often as a filtering metric. Obviously, grades in general aren't the best metric, but they're simple and generally pretty reliable. If I were hiring somebody, I'd look at a combination of test scores and perso…

> the ACT (and by association the SAT)

As someone who nearly aced both, the ACT is a noticeably better test. The SAT has a lot of dumb and predictable tricks involved. The ACT requires more actual ability.

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#15
Spoliers (it's very long): he got one question correct, sadly.

I feel for him given the preparation and detail he put into it. I missed a few SAT questions my senior year but helpfully, The College Board decided to make the test easier the following year and magically recalibrate my scores to perfect. It was too late for colleges to care and the expected thousand girlfriends never materialized but it did make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#16
A lot of the SAT-apologist comments here missed one of the most amazing parts of the post:

> "The correlation between [...] combined verbal and math scores and freshman GPA is .52;"

.52! And it's pulled straight from the College Board's Terms and Conditions! And later on, it goes on to explain that high school GPA's correlation is just .54! The graph he produced to visualize the scatter involved with a .52 correlation is both hilarious and horrifying.

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#17

I admit, I didn't read the whole thing, it was super long. I personally think the ACT (and by association the SAT) is a better measure of intelligence than a GPA, and I would love it if companies used that more often as a filtering metric. Obviously, grades in general aren't the best metric, but they're simple and generally pretty reliable. If I were hiring somebody, I'd look at a combination of test scores and perso…

You're looking for the canned tokenadult post which summarizes as follows: [paraphrased] "Decades of research have established that the most effective indicators of whether someone will be a good hire are (on the one hand) a general intelligence test, and (on the other hand) a work sample. Outside the US, the use of intelligence tests in hiring is common; within the US, it subjects the hiring agent to legal difficult…

Actually, the effective hiring procedures of either kind are rare everywhere, but, yes, that is otherwise a fair summary of my FAQ post on company hiring procedures,

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543

which I too thought seems to fit in with several of the comments in this thread. Regrettably, most companies miss out on opportunities to use the best available hiring procedures, preferring the traditional methods to methods validated by research.

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#19
A lot of the comments here are related to the idea of whether or not the SAT can be regarded as being much like an IQ test. It can, and psychologists routinely think of the SAT that way. Despite a number of statements to the contrary in the various comments here, taking SAT scores as an informative correlate (proxy) of what psychologists call "general intelligence" is a procedure often found in the professional literature of psychology, with the warrant of studies specifically on that issue. Note that it is standard usage among psychologists to treat "general intelligence" as a term that basically equates with "scoring well on IQ tests and good proxies of IQ tests," which is the point of some of the comments here.

http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/koening2008.pdf

"Frey and Detterman (2004) showed that the SAT was correlated with measures of general intelligence .82 (.87 when corrected for nonlinearity)"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144549/

"Indeed, research suggests that SAT scores load highly on the first principal factor of a factor analysis of cognitive measures; a finding that strongly suggests that the SAT is g loaded (Frey & Detterman, 2004)."

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/12/04/why-should-s...

"Furthermore, the SAT is largely a measure of general intelligence. Scores on the SAT correlate very highly with scores on standardized tests of intelligence, and like IQ scores, are stable across time and not easily increased through training, coaching or practice."

http://faculty.psy.ohio-state.edu/peters/lab/pubs/publicatio...

"Numeracy’s effects can be examined when controlling for other proxies of general intelligence (e.g., SAT scores; Stanovich & West, 2008)."

As I have heard the issue discussed in the local "journal club" I participate in with professors and graduate students of psychology who focus on human behavioral genetics (including the genetics of IQ), one thing that makes the SAT a very good proxy of general intelligence is that its item content is disclosed (in released previous tests that can be used as practice tests), so that almost the only difference between one test-taker and another in performance on the SAT is generally and consistently getting all of the various items correct, which certainly takes cognitive strengths.

Psychologist Keith R. Stanovich makes the interesting point that there are very strong correlations with IQ scores and SAT scores with some of what everyone regards as "smart" behavior (and which psychologists by convention call "general intelligence") while there are still other kinds of tests that plainly have indisputable right answers that high-IQ people are able to muff. Thus Stanovich distinguishes "intelligence" (essentially, IQ) from "rationality" (making correct decisions that overcome human cognitive biases) as distinct aspects of human cognition. He has a whole book on the subject, What Intelligence Tests Miss, that is quite thought-provoking and informative.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Tests-Miss-Psycholog...

(Disclosure: I enjoy this kind of research discussion partly because I am acquainted with one large group of high-IQ young people

http://cty.jhu.edu/set/

and am interested in how such young people develop over the course of life.)

Re: SAT: Getting the lowest score possible

#20
post #3

The SAT is an important measure of a humans intelligence and performance in the real world, that's why the best companies always filter candidates and select the ones with highest SAT scores. It's a good thing we have tests like these and pay large sums of money to the people who maintain it. Otherwise interviewing might be totally screwed up and completely fail at its intended purpose in this country.

The SAT is good for measuring how good one is at taking the SAT, which in turn is an indicator of how much the test taker took preparing for the exam seriously, which is an indirect indicator of the person's work ethic and attitude towards putting in effort for a means to an end (yes, despite the pointlessness of this exam). It does do a decent job at finding such people who strive to excel within the limits of a (fl…

While I'm a different person at the age of 30 (Just finished my A.S. two days ago with a 3.7 GPA), I have to admit that I was extremely lazy as a teenager. As a matter of fact, I was almost certainly the laziest person in my class. Keeping that in mind, I achieved the second highest score on the PSAT in my school. I don't think that a standardized test as easy as the SATs is a good indicator of work ethic.

In my opinion, the completion of a college degree in combination with one's GPA add up to a pretty good, but not perfect, indicator of one's work ethic. Standardized tests on the other hand, could identify intelligence, but probably not in their current forms.

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