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GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

blog.tomaszdunia.pl

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Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#271

Post by yason »

palata wrote: post #66
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contacted my bank, insisting that GrapheneOS is one of the most secure OS on the market and therefore should be supported if they actually care about users' security (it's actually far more secure than all the old, far less secure but Google-approved devices out there). They acknowledged an fixed their app, one of the most popular in France. Still missing Android Pay but that's due to Android Pay being closed. I wi…

> I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google There are countries where it's possible to pay everywhere with the banking app scanning a QR code. No need for NFC :-).

The point of NFC-on-a-phone is that you don't need the damn banking apps and internet and retailer support for all that to validate a simple transaction. My credit card has NFC, no internet and no app, and it's universal.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#272

Post by gunapologist99 »

Brybry wrote: post #260
Neil44 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with Lineage OS, may daughter has an old Samsung with Lineage on it and the Wallet app doesn't work because the phone's been rooted.

You're doomed to this issue with old phones in general. Even un-modified you'll then be stuck with an old version of Android that doesn't support the latest versions of apps and the old versions of apps won't work properly. It's really a shame because a lot of old phones work perfectly fine otherwise.

Generally Lineage is the latest. Unfortunately, there are other issues (such as the blobs that Lineage needs drifting out of date, and it's usually suggested that you'll should backup and then wipe to upgrade to the next major release, etc.)

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#273

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

haskman wrote: post #235

Been running GrapheneOS for a while on a Pixel 9, and extremely happy with it! Apart from the usual perks of the FOSS ecosystem, there are a few things specific to GrapheneOS that are not immediately apparent but have turned out to work very well - 1. The Pixel camera app works, including all modes and settings. A camera that takes good photos was absolutely a requirement for me, and the FOSS camera apps are not quit…

>4. Android QuickShare works!

Does that require being logged into a Google account? How to ensure Google knows nothing about your shares?

I have Graphene w/ Google Play Services (required for my job) and would love a easy way to share files/info with various devices (incl. iOS/macOS which I remember should work with QuickShare in the future) but will avoid a service that shares data with Google.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#274

Post by jlokier »

b112 wrote: post #163
fodmap wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's mind boggingly stupid that they lock down apps like this, when you can just open the thing in a website anyway. I can use my bank on some linux distro... Not in Spain. I can access my bank's website but I can't do anything without their bank app. Even sometimes they require to confirm my identity using their app in order to access their website. I have several linux phones but I can only do banking with their…

Not in Spain. I can access my bank's website but I can't do anything without their bank app. Even sometimes they require to confirm my identity using their app in order to access their website. I've seen this elsewhere, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because in almost all cases, the apps may only be installed with Google Play, and require the framework to work correctly. And that means? If you are not in good s…

> They do it so they don't have to stand up their own push servers

I don't agree with this dependency on being in good standing with Google either.

But there is a technical reason that isn't wanting to avoid using their push servers. It is about battery usage and radio bandwidth.

Keeping open an idle connection over WebSocket, long-poll HTTP or TCP/IP needs regular pings (typically 30 seconds are used), one ping per connection. Otherwise your app can't be sure to receive messages from the server in real time, as the connection can disappear into CGNAT or similar hole where it doesn't receive messages sent by the server. To an app not using pings to check, such a blackholed connection is indisinguishable from an idle connection with no pending messages.

Waking the radio every 30 seconds, times 2 (back and forth), times the number of registered applications, would be quite battery draining. It drains battery both for background CPU usage and radio processing. Those pings in aggregate can even amount to a significant amount of data usage for users on smaller plans.

So there is a battery and radio advantage in using a shared push service, which only need a single idle connection to be kept live with 30 second pings.

There's another level to this, not available to regular developers using TCP/IP, HTTP or WebSockets.

The mobile network itself has to maintain handset connection liveness to the nearest tower, at a lower level than IP pings, and this is obviously optimised for battery and radio performance, and always running.

With arrangements in place with the mobile networks (which Google and Apple have), the mobile OS can leverage that for more reliable, lower power push notifications, by either guaranteeing the network will send something technically similar to a low-level SMS when there's an outstanding message, or by guaranteeing their special push IP connection will stay live by itself (no CGNAT blackhole) or be notified if something happens to it.

This allows the mobile OS to offer a shared push service that's fairly reliable at real-time notifications, with zero continuous CPU and radio power overhead for the idle connection.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#275

Post by UqWBcuFx6NV4r »

malfist wrote: post #196
vages wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the Norwegian perspective. I agree that the locking down is truly stupid. For what it’s worth, the reasoning for locking down mobile apps is allegedly that mobile users are a less technologically competent demographic than desktop users. I do not think so myself, given the difficulty in trying Graphene vs. Desktop Linux.

Those people who root their phone and install alternate OSes sure are less technologically competent than someone with a browser and a laptop

“Installing alternate OSs” is juicy bait for “tech enthusiasts” who know just enough to be effectively worse off than someone with a browser, yes, and at its core is this holier than thou attitude.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#276

Post by gunapologist99 »

kakacik wrote: post #258
haskman wrote: post #235

Been running GrapheneOS for a while on a Pixel 9, and extremely happy with it! Apart from the usual perks of the FOSS ecosystem, there are a few things specific to GrapheneOS that are not immediately apparent but have turned out to work very well - 1. The Pixel camera app works, including all modes and settings. A camera that takes good photos was absolutely a requirement for me, and the FOSS camera apps are not quit…

A quick question from potential buyer of next generation of pixel phones, since samsung keeps disappointing hard with their top line - is there any difference in quality between default photo app and what graphene os bundles with? Pixel are supposed to be very good in photography, part hardware and part software, and my concern would be degradation of that software part. With small kids, there is nothing more importa…

Yes, it's a huge difference. However, you can install the very latest Google Camera app through the Aurora app (or Play Market), and it works perfectly except you don't get photo preview within that app; to fix that minor issue, you can install the Gphotoshim which someone else mentioned in the comments.

On the other hand, if you switch to the latest Google camera app, you will not really be participating in making the open source version better.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#278

Post by compass_copium »

Gormo wrote: post #247
bramhaag wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some other FOSS apps I use daily: Aegis - 2FA ( https://github.com/beemdevelopment/Aegis ) Breezy Weather - A very good looking weather app ( https://github.com/breezy-weather/breezy-weather ) OnlyOffice Documents - MS Office suite replacement ( https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/documents-app-android ) Fossify Calendar ( https://github.com/FossifyOrg/Calendar ) Fossify Messages ( https://github.com/FossifyOrg/Messages )…

Some others that I use: * NextCloud -- client for personal NextCloud server; this app is used primarily for file sync, with other features accessed with other apps. ( https://nextcloud.com/features/?filter=Clients#android-clien... ) * KeePassDX -- password manager, shares DB with KeePassXC on desktop, which is synced via NextCloud. Also functions as a TOTP authenticator. ( https://www.keepassdx.com/ ) * DAVx5 -- CalD…

I also like AntennaPod for audiobooks--fewer apps that way.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#279

Post by derbOac »

b112 wrote: post #163
fodmap wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's mind boggingly stupid that they lock down apps like this, when you can just open the thing in a website anyway. I can use my bank on some linux distro... Not in Spain. I can access my bank's website but I can't do anything without their bank app. Even sometimes they require to confirm my identity using their app in order to access their website. I have several linux phones but I can only do banking with their…

Not in Spain. I can access my bank's website but I can't do anything without their bank app. Even sometimes they require to confirm my identity using their app in order to access their website. I've seen this elsewhere, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because in almost all cases, the apps may only be installed with Google Play, and require the framework to work correctly. And that means? If you are not in good s…

It seems like the right time to advocate for open standards in things like banking.
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