Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist? • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#71

Post by biohacker42 » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 9:49 PM UTC

Herring wrote: post #69

biohacker42 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing shy about me, trust me. Agnostics are mathematicians. Or at lest very close to being mathematicians. There's the old joke of a biologist, a physicist and a mathematician on a train in Scotland. They see a black sheep and the biologist says: Hey Scotland is full of black sheep! The Physicist responds with we have evidence of one black sheep in Scotland. And the mathematician concludes, there exists at…

So what happens when they don't see a black sheep?

As Dawkins puts it, if there were a teapot orbiting the sun, we'd have no way of detecting it.

It is too small for our telescopes, so we have absolutely no evidence for a teapot orbiting the sun.

You don't believe in that teapot, do you? That's silly.

But Dawkins is a biologist, and I'm a computer scientist, I don't believe in the teapot, but I also don't KNOW it's not there.

And that has nothing to do with shyness.

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#72

Post by meep » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 9:49 PM UTC

markup wrote: post #10

I am agnostic, so I can't vote, apparently.

Well it's kind of fitting if you think about it. Instead of choosing "none of the above", just don't choose any of the options ;).

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#73

Post by gravitycop » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 9:51 PM UTC

lst wrote: post #58

I have a (simple) question to all atheists: If you didn't create yourself (and you didn't , otherwise you would know/remember/etc.), and (consequently) some other one did , how do you call it ?

If you didn't create yourself [...] and (consequently) some other one did, how do you call it?

Natural selection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#74

Post by lst » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 9:56 PM UTC

biohacker42 wrote: post #66

lst wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agnostics are shy atheists. If the answer is either yes or no, and you say "maybe", you say "no", substantially. Why? Because every "no" is simply a refuted "yes" (philosophically speaking).

There's nothing shy about me, trust me. Agnostics are mathematicians. Or at lest very close to being mathematicians. There's the old joke of a biologist, a physicist and a mathematician on a train in Scotland. They see a black sheep and the biologist says: Hey Scotland is full of black sheep! The Physicist responds with we have evidence of one black sheep in Scotland. And the mathematician concludes, there exists at…

Sorry to correct you, but you're actually kind of shy (that is, not really determined):

You simply confirm that if 3 persons of human species are exposed to the same reality (yes, reality, because the impressions may be different, but the reality is well defined and precisely one):

So, if 3 persons of the same species are all concluding more or less different things, then you have the definite answer that none of them is seeing absolutely everything, that is: the whole reality:

So: you can't be God, because:

If you were God, you would know it (together with the exact reality of all things...)

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#75

Post by bendotc » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 9:56 PM UTC

lst wrote: post #63

markup wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about no? I don't say "maybe", I say it is impossible to prove or disprove. Frankly reducing it to a "yes or no" question is really reductive, and pretty much a christian way to put things, if you will. Q: "Do you believe in god?" A: "I cannot know whether a god exists or not."

If you say: "I cannot know whether a god exists or not.", you already say that you are not cause of yourself (otherwise you would know ), and, consequently, there must be another cause outside yourself : And this is exactly the definition of "God".

"another cause outside yourself" is not exactly the definition of "God." To believe that you did not bring yourself into being does not mean you believe in God, it means you're not a solipsist.

Also, would you please stop telling people what they believe? I don't think I'm the only person here who finds it to be rude. You can civilly argue a point without telling people that they're not really agnostics or whatever.

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#76

Post by shawnyar217 » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 10:00 PM UTC

lst wrote: post #58

I have a (simple) question to all atheists: If you didn't create yourself (and you didn't , otherwise you would know/remember/etc.), and (consequently) some other one did , how do you call it ?

I have a (simple) question to all THEISTS:

If you believe god created you, what name do call that god by? Jesus? Allah? Yahweh? Buddha? Zeus?

Theists, talk amongst yourself. If you ever settle on one name for god, then maybe we atheists will start taking you more seriously.

Logically, if you didn't create yourself:

1) Maybe a god created you. 2) Maybe something else created you. 3) Maybe you weren't created at all. (Ex: Maybe the matter and energy in the universe have existed forever.)

As an atheist, I'm humble enough to admit I can't pick #1, #2, or #3 conclusively.

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#77

Post by biohacker42 » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 10:00 PM UTC

lst wrote: post #74

biohacker42 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing shy about me, trust me. Agnostics are mathematicians. Or at lest very close to being mathematicians. There's the old joke of a biologist, a physicist and a mathematician on a train in Scotland. They see a black sheep and the biologist says: Hey Scotland is full of black sheep! The Physicist responds with we have evidence of one black sheep in Scotland. And the mathematician concludes, there exists at…

Sorry to correct you, but you're actually kind of shy (that is, not really determined): You simply confirm that if 3 persons of human species are exposed to the same reality (yes, reality, because the impressions may be different, but the reality is well defined and precisely one ): So, if 3 persons of the same species are all concluding more or less different things, then you have the definite answer that none of th…

Either you're WAAAAAAAAAY smarter then me, or you're babbling.

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#78

Post by lst » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 10:00 PM UTC

markup wrote: post #70

lst wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only explained the basic principles of logic...

I tried explained you it is about epistemology, instead.

And you know what "logic" means?

You can't act against "logic" without hurting yourself. If you are a hacker (like me), you never ever can act against logic, otherwise your program won't work (and exactly the same happens with life itself).

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#79

Post by gravitycop » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 10:04 PM UTC

bendotc wrote: post #75

lst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you say: "I cannot know whether a god exists or not.", you already say that you are not cause of yourself (otherwise you would know ), and, consequently, there must be another cause outside yourself : And this is exactly the definition of "God".

"another cause outside yourself" is not exactly the definition of "God." To believe that you did not bring yourself into being does not mean you believe in God, it means you're not a solipsist. Also, would you please stop telling people what they believe? I don't think I'm the only person here who finds it to be rude. You can civilly argue a point without telling people that they're not really agnostics or whatever.

Also, would you please stop telling people what they believe?

Also known as negation: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/profile.html#tendency_t...

Profile of a rapist [...]

3) Negating behavior or comments - [...] Does he try to tell you what you are feeling or thinking? Or worse, tell you what you are not? Comments like "you don’t really mean that" are serious indicators of someone trying to negate you. A person who negates others is trying to take away the other person’s thoughts, feelings and needs and attempting to project his wants onto that person.

Re: Poll: Atheist, Deist, Theist?

#80

Post by bendotc » Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 10:04 PM UTC

TrevorJ wrote: post #53

markup wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a strong agnostic... or strongly agnostic, I don't know what's the proper grammatical form. But I DO know strong agnosticism is what sums my own thoughts on god. :-) (I don't get why you've been downmodded to -1, I have just +1'd you)

I believe that God exists, I however also believe that his existence cannot be proven empirically, what category does that put me in?

I believe lots of theists believe in God without believing in the possibility of an empirical truth. I've certainly met Christian scientists (not to be confused with Christian Scientists) who fall into this category. It would be silly to call them agnostics.

As another poster wrote, often times agnostics approach the question as one of knowledge, whereas most theists as well as "weak" atheists see it as a question of belief. We all (well, almost all) believe all sorts of things that we do not truly know.