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U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

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Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#11

Post by nostromo »

I was struck when we incorporated our company and raised financing how much we still use ink and paper to keep track of things like corporate ownership. When signing so many documents I wanted to seal them with paraffin wax and send them to our lawyers via carrier pigeon.

In the case of Facebook, a multi-billion dollar company, it seems amazing that someone can come out of the woodwork and with a little effort in document tampering cause such a hullabaloo. It seems like too important of an issue to be inpart determined by "spacing, columns, and margins of page one of the Alleged Contract."

Of course, I don't know of a better system, just that the current system seems archaic. (You probably couldn't create a centralized "contract bureau" in the federal government, because many contracts are private, until someone sues.)

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#12

Post by jallmann »

leoh wrote: post #5

Did this line strike anyone else as pathetic? In today’s press release, USPIS Inspector-in-Charge Randall C. Till added: “When Mr. Ceglia allegedly decided to take advantage of Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook, he underestimated the resolve of the Postal Inspection Service to bring him to justice for illegal use of the U.S. Mail.” Ceglia is probably in the wrong and unethical. But the self-righteousness and pompadour of…

The Postal Inspection Service is a useful tool. Mail fraud brings down a lot of sleazeballs that would otherwise have gotten away. Maybe because that's the last thing they would think to cover up.

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#13

Post by fruchtose »

leoh wrote: post #5

Did this line strike anyone else as pathetic? In today’s press release, USPIS Inspector-in-Charge Randall C. Till added: “When Mr. Ceglia allegedly decided to take advantage of Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook, he underestimated the resolve of the Postal Inspection Service to bring him to justice for illegal use of the U.S. Mail.” Ceglia is probably in the wrong and unethical. But the self-righteousness and pompadour of…

I would say it's over-the-top, not pathetic. It would be pathetic if Ceglia were charged with murder and he could only be convicted of not licking stamps. The quoted line is just silly. It would be at home in a Mel Brooks movie, except that mail fraud in the U.S. is no joke and carries serious penalties.

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#14

Post by joezydeco »

nostromo wrote: post #11

I was struck when we incorporated our company and raised financing how much we still use ink and paper to keep track of things like corporate ownership. When signing so many documents I wanted to seal them with paraffin wax and send them to our lawyers via carrier pigeon. In the case of Facebook, a multi-billion dollar company, it seems amazing that someone can come out of the woodwork and with a little effort in doc…

I always wondered if there was a need for a cheaper, worldwide document certification system.

Of course you can get a notary to stamp a document or file it with the county clerk in your jurisdiction. But what about taking an MD5 of a PDF and printing it in the newspaper? Would that work?

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#15

Post by SonOfLilit »

nostromo wrote: post #11

I was struck when we incorporated our company and raised financing how much we still use ink and paper to keep track of things like corporate ownership. When signing so many documents I wanted to seal them with paraffin wax and send them to our lawyers via carrier pigeon. In the case of Facebook, a multi-billion dollar company, it seems amazing that someone can come out of the woodwork and with a little effort in doc…

There's no technological problem with creating a "contract bureau" - just demand contracts to be in a somehow-digital format (scanned handwritten document counts) and have everyone send [SHA1(document) + names of entities signed on the document] to the bureau.

Only problem with demanding this is that you /want/ people to be able to sell their car without access to a computer. That, and authentication.

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#16

Post by uvdiv »

nostromo wrote: post #11

I was struck when we incorporated our company and raised financing how much we still use ink and paper to keep track of things like corporate ownership. When signing so many documents I wanted to seal them with paraffin wax and send them to our lawyers via carrier pigeon. In the case of Facebook, a multi-billion dollar company, it seems amazing that someone can come out of the woodwork and with a little effort in doc…

Of course, I don't know of a better system, just that the current system seems archaic. (You probably couldn't create a centralized "contract bureau" in the federal government, because many contracts are private, until someone sues.)

Of course you can! Only submit a short cryptographic hash (summary), instead of the plaintext. Along with the digital public-key signatures of the signing parties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_hash_function

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature

You could even privatize it. There was at least one startup/concept like this on HN, but I forgot where.

(edit): Here's one discussion:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4618362

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#17

Post by imglorp »

joezydeco wrote: post #14
nostromo wrote: post #11

I was struck when we incorporated our company and raised financing how much we still use ink and paper to keep track of things like corporate ownership. When signing so many documents I wanted to seal them with paraffin wax and send them to our lawyers via carrier pigeon. In the case of Facebook, a multi-billion dollar company, it seems amazing that someone can come out of the woodwork and with a little effort in doc…

I always wondered if there was a need for a cheaper, worldwide document certification system. Of course you can get a notary to stamp a document or file it with the county clerk in your jurisdiction. But what about taking an MD5 of a PDF and printing it in the newspaper? Would that work?

http://www.echosign.com/

http://www.docusign.com/

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#18

Post by hkmurakami »

leoh wrote: post #5

Did this line strike anyone else as pathetic? In today’s press release, USPIS Inspector-in-Charge Randall C. Till added: “When Mr. Ceglia allegedly decided to take advantage of Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook, he underestimated the resolve of the Postal Inspection Service to bring him to justice for illegal use of the U.S. Mail.” Ceglia is probably in the wrong and unethical. But the self-righteousness and pompadour of…

self-righteousness: check

correctness: check

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#19

Post by SonOfLilit »

joezydeco wrote: post #14
nostromo wrote: post #11

I was struck when we incorporated our company and raised financing how much we still use ink and paper to keep track of things like corporate ownership. When signing so many documents I wanted to seal them with paraffin wax and send them to our lawyers via carrier pigeon. In the case of Facebook, a multi-billion dollar company, it seems amazing that someone can come out of the woodwork and with a little effort in doc…

I always wondered if there was a need for a cheaper, worldwide document certification system. Of course you can get a notary to stamp a document or file it with the county clerk in your jurisdiction. But what about taking an MD5 of a PDF and printing it in the newspaper? Would that work?

Simpler: include in the contract a clause that says "the version of this text that counts is in a PDF with SHA1 23afb87c...".

You still need a way to prove that the other side really signed the document you hold, and willingly. Notaries work.

But this system is not forced - so it protects the side holding a real contract form the other side denying they signed, but does not protect you from a fraud turning up with a contract that you didn't really sign and claiming that you did, you just didn't bother to go to a notary with him.

If there were a way to publicly claim "from now on, only contracts signed by my private key count as really signed by me... But it's not easy to implement such a measure. Every one you sign contracts with needs a really easy way to check if you declared this in the past, otherwise you can fraud them by signing a contract only with a pen. And they need to be aware of this new law.

Re: U.S. Arrests Paul Ceglia for Multi-Billion Dollar Scheme to Defraud Facebook

#20

Post by jpdoctor »

leoh wrote: post #5

Did this line strike anyone else as pathetic? In today’s press release, USPIS Inspector-in-Charge Randall C. Till added: “When Mr. Ceglia allegedly decided to take advantage of Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook, he underestimated the resolve of the Postal Inspection Service to bring him to justice for illegal use of the U.S. Mail.” Ceglia is probably in the wrong and unethical. But the self-righteousness and pompadour of…

> self-righteousness and pompadour

Hair styling is everything when exuding self-righteousness. Choosing the Reagan model is as good a style as anything.

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