Are You a Grumpy Developer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#31

Post by Leon » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

dreamdu5t wrote: post #27

A better question to ask is, "Why are developers grumpy?"

Yes, that is the question to ask!

What bothered me most about this essay was one point near the end: "Ask yourself, 'Am I being grumpy right now?'. If the answer is yes, then stop!"

This is a non-realistic response to an issue of moral with a real underlying cause. What bothers me most about this is that it will only cause further issues with the developer as they cover the problems with the group they are working with. Their proposed solution is what someone would say to someone suffering from depression, 'Just stop being unhappy and cheer up!'.

This does not work, what they suggest will not work and will only further the decline of morale, company culture, and retention of developers. Grumpiness is a symptom of underlying causes within a company.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#32

Post by SoftwareMaven » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:08 PM UTC

If you are working for me, my expectation is that you will treat everybody (both on my team and not) with professionalism and respect, even if you feel you aren't getting enough respect from others[1].

Even if you are doing that, if you are continually negative and surely (e.g. not quite grouchy, but certainly not pleasant), your tenure on my team will be short[2]. Negativity spreads like a cancer until it destroys morale on a team, and I won't let somebody on my team be the carcinogen, no matter how "amazing" you are at coding.

I take these things very seriously because I've been on teams that self-destructed over them. Even if you are a "10x" developer, if you are making the rest of the team "0.1x" developers, you are not providing me with value. If you are being grouchy, negative, surely or rude because you see yourself as a 10x developer so you are justified in acting however you want, you are welcome to go back to pre-school where that behavior is expected.

1. I also expect others to treat my team with respect and will fight to the death for my team to be respected as such, but, in the end, I have less direct control over that.

2. Of course I will try to resolve the issue through communication and managing (you know, my job if you are on my team). Some people are receptive; some people are not.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#33

Post by riazrizvi » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:10 PM UTC

dreamdu5t wrote: post #27

A better question to ask is, "Why are developers grumpy?"

I think sitting at a desk all day, diverting most of your focus on problem solving instead of self-regulation has a lot to do with it.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#34

Post by daeliot » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:18 PM UTC

I didn't look at the domain name or the author name when I first read it. Ricky Robinett was my boss 2 summers ago. He's really awesome and I've never seen him grumpy before.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#35

Post by codegeek » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:20 PM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #32

If you are working for me, my expectation is that you will treat everybody (both on my team and not) with professionalism and respect, even if you feel you aren't getting enough respect from others[1]. Even if you are doing that, if you are continually negative and surely (e.g. not quite grouchy, but certainly not pleasant), your tenure on my team will be short[2]. Negativity spreads like a cancer until it destroys m…

Could only upvote once. Well said. There are lot of people who still do not understand the importance of team work and personally for me, it is never cliched. Your line "Even if you are a "10x" developer, if you are making the rest of the team "0.1x" developers, you are not providing me with value" hit the nail on the head.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#36

Post by codegeek » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:26 PM UTC

It is ok to be grumpy. We are all human beings after all. What is not ok is when you start using your grumpiness against the people you work with. If team morale is down because of your grumpiness, no one really gives a shit how good of a developer you are. It is that simple.

I remember one of those project management training sessions where we were taught

T E A M = Together Everyone Achieves More

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#37

Post by lostnet » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:28 PM UTC

Before you go hiring all those "happy developers" I would suggest searching for "grumpy employee productivity". You can cross reference it with estimates of the GDP affect of various fields.

Your grumpy developers are in the state where they identify the most problems and introduce the least bugs. They also might not be grumpy when not concentrating on your train wrecks.

But not to worry, giving bad management advice is a great way to make us more productive.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#38

Post by codegeek » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:31 PM UTC

lostnet wrote: post #37

Before you go hiring all those "happy developers" I would suggest searching for "grumpy employee productivity". You can cross reference it with estimates of the GDP affect of various fields. Your grumpy developers are in the state where they identify the most problems and introduce the least bugs. They also might not be grumpy when not concentrating on your train wrecks. But not to worry, giving bad management advice…

You are taking the word "grumpy" literally. In my opinion, the author is talking about a broader issue where you don't add value to a team/project when your attitude (grumpiness or whatever) is not in line with the rest of the team. Sure developers who identify most problems and introduce least bugs are great. But if they do that by constantly putting down others is being "bad grumpy".

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#39

Post by nahname » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:41 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #25

mingmecca wrote: post #13

Grumpiness, at least for me, comes from the frustration of dealing with people who don't understand the ramifications of their change-requests. "Can this app run in offline mode?", "Can you make it run in 128k RAM?", "Your software doesn't work right if I run a butter knife across my motherboard when I start it up!" What seems like a simple change to them is actually a large change to me, and the pushback/explanation…

I tell all my clients that the answer to all requests, modulo certain impossibilities such as solving the TSP, is "yes". Can it be done offline? Yes. Can it be made to run in 128k? Yes. Can it be made to work in the exciting breadknife/motherboard interface market? Yes. "The question you need to ask", I tell them, "is not can it be done -- but by when, for how much, with what disruptions?" So far ... so good.

I'm reminded the "Four letter words" from Rework. How many times have you been asked "Can you just get done. It only has a few parts and should be easy!"

Those two sentences nail almost all fo them.

Re: Are You a Grumpy Developer?

#40

Post by drivebyacct2 » Fri, Oct 26, 2012, 5:43 PM UTC

What does grumpy mean? I get frustrated with my code. If I'm jamming out or in a bug sesh I have been known to be loud or a bit obnoxious, but it's all in context.

As with most posts like this, context is key. What's appropriate around my friends is not appropriate around my mother and the skill to recognize that is KEY but it's also not one that you're likely to learn from an article if you don't already "get it".

If grumpy just means rude and disrespectful, then you're just an asshole and your profession isn't super relevant.