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Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

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Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#141

Post by josephg »

nilslindemann wrote: post #127
josephg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I hear this claim from above: "Some humans can beat stockfish." Evidence given: "There exist some small number of games on lichess.org played against stockfish where the user won." My counter argument is that games on lichess against stockfish don't imply a human beat stockfish. It could just be that stockfish (or other bots) can sometimes beat stockfish. And some humans surely use bots to play on their behalf i…

Well, there is nothing I can do to prove to you that I did, as I can not travel into the past taking you with me. I know, I did win two or three games and drew approximately 25 out of approximately 500 training games. But I can not prove it. You have to believe or not.

I believe you. I just suspect stockfish was misconfigured, it wasn’t playing at its highest skill level or something similar was going on. That seems more likely. (I’d love to know for sure though).

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#142

Post by Jean-Papoulos »

mythz wrote: post #68
traes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, "came last in Speed Chess Championship" actually means he came in 4th out of 16. He still made it to the semifinals. Even then he barely lost to Alireza, who is pretty universally considered a top 3 speed chess player. The loss to Lazavik was a lot worse, but it was still a close match against a strong player. He hasn't won a Titled Tuesday this year but he hasn't scored worse than 8/11 and he's still ma…

Sure he's still one of the top players, but he's not as strong this year and OP is suggesting he still has an edge against the GOAT, who this year: - Has won Freestyle WC - Has won SCC - Has won 2x Titled Tuesday's - Has won a Freestyle Friday Hikaru can snipe a win off Magnus here and there, but I don't think there's any time control or format where he could win a long series of chess matches against Magnus.

He could win bullet. No increment means his years of streaming bullet will let an edge when moving in the endgame, so he just needs to draw out the game long enough to get Carlsen either to 0 or in trouble. Somehow we got a chess format where mechanics matter :)

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#143

Post by Taek »

Etheryte wrote: post #135
somenameforme wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average players start declining in their mid to late thirties, just about the age of Magnus (and Hikaru). But even with that decline, it's not like they simply can't play anymore. Drag Kasparov out of retirement and he's still going to be an extremely strong player, even in his 60s. And a lot probably comes with environmental rather than physical issues. Staying at the highest level in chess requires never-ending…

I think motivation really is the key term here. Magnus is a five-time world chess champion, in a complete league of his own even when everyone else was literally only prepping to defeat him. He held the world champion title for ten years and eventually just declined to defend it. And that's relatable, if you're at the absolute top for ten years and no one manages to put a dent to it, what else is there? I think most…

He declined to defend it because he disagreed with the way FIDE was organizing and managing the tournament. I believe this is around the time they threw him out of a tournament for wearing jeans, when he was not the only competitor present in jeans.

I think it's nearly universally accepted that his streak ended on a technicality rather than a legitimate decline/defeat.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#144

Post by dyauspitr »

nilslindemann wrote: post #75
School-Cotton wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hard to answer because the advantage is essentially infinitely large. Engines never lose or draw against unassisted humans. Any modern chess engine, if it plays 100 games against any human (even magnus), will have a record of 100 wins, 0 draws, and 0 losses. This is true both in standard chess and Chess960.

This is most definitely wrong. There will be some draws and even a few wins, though that's very rare indeed.

It technically could happen but hasn’t so far.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#145

Post by Pay08 »

Taek wrote: post #143
Etheryte wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think motivation really is the key term here. Magnus is a five-time world chess champion, in a complete league of his own even when everyone else was literally only prepping to defeat him. He held the world champion title for ten years and eventually just declined to defend it. And that's relatable, if you're at the absolute top for ten years and no one manages to put a dent to it, what else is there? I think most…

He declined to defend it because he disagreed with the way FIDE was organizing and managing the tournament. I believe this is around the time they threw him out of a tournament for wearing jeans, when he was not the only competitor present in jeans. I think it's nearly universally accepted that his streak ended on a technicality rather than a legitimate decline/defeat.

From what I recall, he automatically lost that one game but was not thrown out of the tournament. Eventually he just stopped playing the world championship altogether, which is when he lost his title.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#146

Post by nilslindemann »

School-Cotton wrote: post #89
nilslindemann wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is most definitely wrong. There will be some draws and even a few wins, though that's very rare indeed.

When is the last time a human has beaten a computer in a fair chess game?

A fair match has never been played between humans and computers. Let's say we have a fair match:

    * 100 games, to have some statistical relevance.
    * One move per day, so that being tired is no disadvantage (engine can ponder all day).
    * Human has access to endgame tablebases and opening databases, like the engine.
    * Human can make notes and has a software like Chess Position Trainer, which can min max, like the engine.
If the human is a GM with Elo 2700+ I predict 25 draws and 5 wins for the human. The engine wins 70 games.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#147

Post by yrds96 »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #128
freetime2 wrote: post #28

How long do chess players typically remain at their peak for? According to wikipedia, Magnus is currently 35. Is it impressive to be winning at 35? Would we expect to see his performance drop off in the next 5-10 years? Even if he is still capable mentally and physically, I would think the stress of training and competing at that level must get old after a while.

The most devastating fact of life is that physical (and mental) performance drops off at around mid 30s. Hakuho, by far the greatest sumo wrestler in history, retired at 38 when he should have retired years earlier.

Yeah, it's hard to maintain physical performance as we are more susceptible to injuries which keeps us away from constant training, but our brain doesn't suffer by injuries, what allow us to go further. I think what makes people to drop at advanced age on "non-physical sports" it's to focus on other aspects of life over the sport because it's exaustive, if not impossible, to focus on both.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#149

Post by Pay08 »

traes wrote: post #60
mythz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hikaru is either in a slump or his skill is starting to age: hasn't won Titled Tuesday since November, hasn't won Freestyle Friday this year, came last in Speed Chess Championship, etc. We'll see how well he does in Candidates this year to see if he's still a top contender. Although I do believe this is his last chance to fight for the world title.

To be clear, "came last in Speed Chess Championship" actually means he came in 4th out of 16. He still made it to the semifinals. Even then he barely lost to Alireza, who is pretty universally considered a top 3 speed chess player. The loss to Lazavik was a lot worse, but it was still a close match against a strong player. He hasn't won a Titled Tuesday this year but he hasn't scored worse than 8/11 and he's still ma…

Isn't Nakamura the best bullet chess player?

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#150

Post by jojobas »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #81
gpm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magnus not participating in FIDE events seems to have absolutely nothing to do with his longevity, it just means that FIDE is no longer meaningfully hosting THE world championship because they failed to attract the talent.

Yeah if FIDE crowns some other champ without Magnus people wont think oh wow Magnus lost the spot, people will think oh wow FIDE lost the spot of being the kingmaker. chess.com is probably the more credible org for global rankings anyway

If you don't have the will to compete nobody is obliged to chase you.
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