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Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

arstechnica.com

151–160 of 223 posts

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#151
post #100

Bluesky post by Benj (one of the authors of the article). https://bsky.app/profile/benjedwards.com/post/3mewgow6ch22p He admits to using an AI tool, says he was sick and did dumb things. He does clear Kyle (the other author).

Really refreshing to see someone owning up to their mistake, that is something rare nowadays.

I don’t totally agree with this. There’s a gap in his story that most journalists wouldn’t leave out like he did. According to his post, the order of events was:

1.) He tried use Claude to generate a list of citations. Claude refused because the article talked about harassment and this breaks its content policy.

2.) He wanted to understand why so he pasted the text into ChatGPT.

3.) ChatGPT generated quotes; he did not verify they were actual quotes.

I don’t see any sign that he actually read the source article. He had an excellent lead in to that - he had Covid and mentioned a lack of sleep so brain fog would have been a valid excuse. He could have said something as simple as ‘I was sick, extremely tired and the brain fog was so deep that I couldn’t remember what I read or even details of the original author’s voice.’ And that would have been more than enough. But there’s nothing.

That’s an odd thing for a journalist to leave out. They’re skilled at crafting narratives that will both explain and persuade and yet the most important part of this whole thing didn’t even warrant a mention.

As a basic rule, if a journalist is covering something that happened via blog posts, you should be able to expect the journalist to read the posts. I’d like to give this writer the benefit of the doubt but it’s hard.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#153

Former technology journalist here. If you want to experiment with reported news using untested tools that have known quality problems, do it in a strictly controlled environment where the output can be carefully vetted. Senior editor(s) need to be in the loop. Start with something easier, not controversial or high-profile articles. One other thing. If the author cut corners because he's too sick to write, but did so…

Not sure how widespread an occurrence in the industry at large, but in two slowly dying publications I'm familiar with, the editors were the first to be let go. Quality took a nosedive, which may or may not have quickened the death spiral. All that to say, there may not even be senior editors around to put in the loop.

The good news is that there are 3 senior editors (though none tasked with AI specifically), the bad news is that one of them was the coauthor. Their staff page does list two copy editors (variously labeled "copy editor" and "copyeditor" which is unfortunate) but no one assigned to fact checking specifically.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#154
post #40

People put a lot of weight on blame-free post-mortems and not punishing people who make "mistakes", but I believe that has to stop at the level of malice. Falsifying quotes is malice. Fire the malicious party or everything else you say is worthless.

That don't actually say it's a blame free post-mortem, nor is it worded as such. They do say it's their policy not to publish AI generated anything unless specifically labelled. So the assumption would be that someone didn't follow policy and there will be repercussions. The problem is people on the Internet, hn included, always howl for maximalist repercussions every time. ie someone should be fired. I don't see tha…

Most of the time a firing is not a reasonable or helpful response to a mistake.

This was not a mistake.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#155
For those wondering what specifically was fabricated, I checked. The earlier parts of the article include some quotes from Scott Shambaugh on Github and all the quotes are genuine.

But the last section of the article includes apparent quotes from this blog post by Shambaugh:

https://theshamblog.com/an-ai-agent-published-a-hit-piece-on...

and all the quotes are fake. The section:

> On Wednesday, Shambaugh published a longer account of the incident, shifting the focus from the pull request to the broader philosophical question of what it means when an AI coding agent publishes personal attacks on human coders without apparent human direction or transparency about who might have directed the actions.

> “Open source maintainers function as supply chain gatekeepers for widely used software,” Shambaugh wrote. “If autonomous agents respond to routine moderation decisions with public reputational attacks, this creates a new form of pressure on volunteer maintainers.”

> Shambaugh noted that the agent’s blog post had drawn on his public contributions to construct its case, characterizing his decision as exclusionary and speculating about his internal motivations. His concern was less about the effect on his public reputation than about the precedent this kind of agentic AI writing was setting. “AI agents can research individuals, generate personalized narratives, and publish them online at scale,” Shambaugh wrote. “Even if the content is inaccurate or exaggerated, it can become part of a persistent public record.”

> ...

> “As autonomous systems become more common, the boundary between human intent and machine output will grow harder to trace,” Shambaugh wrote. “Communities built on trust and volunteer effort will need tools and norms to address that reality.”

Source: the original Ars Technica article:

https://archive.md/8VPMw

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#156
Fabricated quotes has been a huge problem outside the new AI issues for years(decades?). The vast majority of print "news" people consume is cynically designed "outrage porn" targeted towards different segment's political proclivities; aka "opinion" and "analysis" pieces. Both sides for maximum clicks!

They put quote-looking not-quotes in the headlines and articles routinely that essentially amount to "putting words in someone's mouth". A very large portion of the population seems to take this at face value as direct quotes, or accurate paraphrasing, when they absolutely are not.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#157
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That don't actually say it's a blame free post-mortem, nor is it worded as such. Correct, I only mentioned the blame-free post-mortem thing to head off the usual excuses, as a shorthand for the general approach. It has merits in many/most circumstances. > I don't see that as a healthy or proportionate response, Again, correct. It's only appropriate in cases of malice.

Hanlon's razor is a farce. There are no unintentional acts, the drunk driver takes off because he thinks he has to get back as fast as possible, the sick man invokes AI to write his article because he must hit the deadline.

There are lots of unintentional acts, simply because fully predicting all the consequences of ones actions is genuinely difficult. I agree that drunk driving is not one; those consequences are well-known.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#158

Former technology journalist here. If you want to experiment with reported news using untested tools that have known quality problems, do it in a strictly controlled environment where the output can be carefully vetted. Senior editor(s) need to be in the loop. Start with something easier, not controversial or high-profile articles. One other thing. If the author cut corners because he's too sick to write, but did so…

> strictly controlled environment where the output can be carefully vetted

I don't know journalism from the inside, though of course it's one of those professions that everyone things they understand and has an opinion about. Realistically, is it especially careful vetting to verify the quotes and check the factual statements? The quotes seem like especially obvious risks - no matter how sick, who would let an LLM write anything without verifying quotes?

That seems like not verifying currency figures in an estimate or quote, and especially in one written by an LLM - I just can't imagine it. I'd be better off estimating the figures myself or removing them.

Possibly the author doesn't understand LLMs well.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#159

Bluesky post by Benj (one of the authors of the article). https://bsky.app/profile/benjedwards.com/post/3mewgow6ch22p He admits to using an AI tool, says he was sick and did dumb things. He does clear Kyle (the other author).

Is it an American thing to work even when you are sick?

Depends entirely on the workplace and the individual. You can tell people not to work when they're sick, but it's not like they're not aware of deadlines for things that, in some cases, only they can reasonably do.

Re: Editor's Note: Retraction of article containing fabricated quotations

#160
post #9

Odd that there's no link to the retracted article. Thread on Arstechnica forum: https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/editor%E2%80%99s-note-... The retracted article: https://web.archive.org/web/20260213194851/https://arstechni...

> Odd that there's no link to the retracted article.

Well, it's retracted. That means that it shouldn't exist any more, so while they could link to the archive, it defeats the point of retracting it if they do so, right?

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