Live data from Hacker News

The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

politico.eu

911–920 of 979 posts

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proposal was to "outlaw compensation for advertising". That would presumably include paying people to create ads and not just to publish them, hence the first example. What you're arguing is that the first example is different from the second one, but they were intended to be, because they map to two different parts of the process. > The customer is (presumably) purchasing a product and is reading the documentati…

Indeed, advertisers would layoff or displace their marketing teams, as the role would have no value to the company if advertising was outlawed (meanwhile, technical writers would be just fine). I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the framing you put forth that equates advertising with technical writing. > Product documentation is also available to prospective customers so they can review it to decide whether they w…

> Indeed, advertisers would layoff or displace their marketing teams, as the role would have no value to the company if advertising was outlawed

They would obviously redeploy them to drafting or working to influence whatever means exists that still allows them to get new customers.

> The primary purpose of documentation is what I said: for understanding how to operate the product. The only purpose of advertising is to make a sale. Advertising has no secondary purpose. These are not the same thing.

This is like saying the primary purpose of advertising is to display media content.

The only purpose of the entire company is to make a sale. They ship the product from the factory to retail stores because that makes more sales than requiring the customer to come to the factory. They write documentation because more customers are willing to buy a product with documentation. And the documentation carefully portrays the product in a favorable light and directs customers to the company's own offerings -- how often do you see a commercial product's documentation recommending that the customer use a competitor's product under circumstances when that would actually be to the customer's advantage?

Meanwhile advertising also has secondary functions as well, like informing customers of product features they might not have been aware of, or informing them of risks or drawbacks of competing products, or providing active rather than passive notification for time-sensitive information like that a sale is happening, etc.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#912
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give them a break. People want to live a good life. We as a society shouldnt incentivize bad behavior with capital

Engaging in bad and immoral behaviour for capital is still bad and immoral behaviour, particularly when one has other choices.

The point of capitalism is that it incentivizes behavior at a large scale through the allocation of capital. That behavior could be bad or good.

The way to make sure that behavior isnt bad is to regulate the economy to ban it. Not to scold people who follow those incentives but then do nothing about the actual incentive structure

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#913
post #858
post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when freedoms are being infringed, regulations need to be brought in. Hence banning ads online

Your freedom isn't being infringed by seeing an ad lol, what a hilarious suggestion

Advertisement commoditizes attention, which incentivizes tech companies to exploit and manipulate people to get their attention. Thats unacceptable. The proposal was to get rid of ads online to combat that. Its a bit drastic, but the logic is clear

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#914
post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s a straw man. For the fifth(?) time, whether it’s foreign or not is irrelevant, and only you suggested they’re evil. The criteria proposed was whether it’s targeted based on personal content or not, and I’m not alone in not liking where we already are in terms of privacy. Are you suggesting that we need to protect foreign advertiser’s rights to your personal content so they can target ads personalized for y…

No I’m saying that how do you stop American companies from buying ads from foreign companies that Americans can get to? Again I gave you an example of what happens when you try to regulate the Internet - porn companies completely ignoring Florida law?

People accessing sites in other countries via VPN proves absolutely nothing. We are talking about what would happen on US based sites like Google and YouTube, sites that don’t and can’t ignore US law.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#915
post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has the GDPR changed the practices of any company outside of the EU? If you think the GDPR and cookie banners on every website is an argument for more government regulating, is that the argument you really want to be making?

Nearly all large U.S. corporations adhere to the data retention rules and right to delete GDPR rules for EU citizens because they also operate in the EU, and nearly all of them proactively adhere to the GDPR for US citizens just to keep things simpler. Fixating on cookie banners is naive. Here’s just one example: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/governance/

Counterpoint: how is the DMCA affecting companies outside of the EU? Companies didn’t care about the right to delete, it didn’t affect their profits.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#916
post #914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I’m saying that how do you stop American companies from buying ads from foreign companies that Americans can get to? Again I gave you an example of what happens when you try to regulate the Internet - porn companies completely ignoring Florida law?

People accessing sites in other countries via VPN proves absolutely nothing. We are talking about what would happen on US based sites like Google and YouTube, sites that don’t and can’t ignore US law.

They could declare domicile overseas and still sell ads to American countries? You know the Internet is international right?

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads per se are not evil. The motherfucker we'd want to shoot, however, is targeted advertising and especially those that rely on harvested user data. In a sense, I'm just agreeing with a fellow comment in the vicinity of this thread that said GDPR is already the EU's shot at banning (targeted) ads---it's just implemented piss-poorly. Personally formulated, my sentiment is that GDPR as it stands today is a step in the…

Yeah I want my cake and to eat it too. I get annoyed when ads are irrelevant to me, and I get creeped out when they are too relevant. I want to be able to browse the internet for free, where the sites have a sustainable business model and can therefore make high-quality content, but I don't want to have to sign up to a subscription for everything. I want to be able to host websites that get lots of views, but I don't…

I realise this comes across as a sarcastic defence of ads. It's sincere - I don't like ads but I want everything the provide.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations want to sell as much as possible to make as much money as possible. Whenever the frequency, quantity or intensity of use drives up earnings, you are bound to get the same result: More "addictive" designs are better for earnings than less "addictive" designs. The difference (if any) between addictive because fun and addictive by design is irrelevant for this outcome. What I will grant you is that the link…

> If a newspaper publisher knows that some very loyal subscribers only ever read 5 articles every morning, making that particular group read 30 articles would not drive up earnings. I think it's hard to say if that's true. A consumer might be willing to pay more for a service they use a lot rather than a little. What I do know is that I can see plainly that advertising-driven services are among the worse offenders fo…

>What I do know is that I can see plainly that advertising-driven services are among the worse offenders for creating addictive products and other revenue models generally provide healthier incentives to direct development.

I can see plainly that this is not the case and I have given you a number of examples. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

>The EU's general approach here is probably better than banning advertising since it diagnoses a clear problem

I also prefer this to a ban because a ban would be incredibly destructive and regressive while this regulation will be merely ineffective.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not even true in the United States (they’re ‘commercial speech’, which carries a still significant but lesser set of protections), never mind in Europe.

Commercial speech rights are still part of the "free speech" bundle of 1A protections.

Not in practice.
Post reply on HN