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The wonder of modern drywall

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Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#171

Post by usrnm »

lostlogin wrote: post #94
rootusrootus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just what you get used to. Every method has ups and downs. And different regions are going to gravitate to different materials based on availability (for example, my Indian coworkers just cannot fathom why we would ever build houses from trees instead of reinforced concrete; doesn't it rot?!!). I don't think of the walls as especially flimsy, though. Built correctly, they are totally fine. Yes you can pu…

> why we would ever build houses from trees instead of reinforced concrete Earthquakes are a factor where we are, but also, if NZ can find a way to do something cheaper, we will always do it. Quality be damned.

I seriously doubt you get sufficiently more earthquakes than, say, Tokio, which is mostly concrete

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#172

Post by usrnm »

ragall wrote: post #110
hn_acc1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while in the 90s, a friend from Canada went to Germany and started building NA style houses (wood frame, drywall) in Germany. People loved that it could be finished in 3 months instead of 9-12 and cost 1/3 less, IIRC.

They're happy until the long-term effects hit them, as stick frame houses need repairs a lot more often. Nowadays, European companies have developed many modular building techniques that have reduced the labor considerably, from robots that 3D-print concrete walls, to LEGO-like hollow bricks.

> Nowadays, European companies have developed many modular building techniques

It's so fun watching Europeans reinvent the Soviet approach to building that they used to mock and shit on

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#173

Post by jimnotgym »

yowayb wrote: post #115
intrasight wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one wants exposed screw holes Wouldn't bother me. But I'm an engineer. But I think the holes can be plugged with removable plugs.

I love exposed everything in construction. Every plumbing and electrical problem that required me to call someone involved the thing being hidden for aesthetic reasons. I'm currently in an old house in Vietnam and I had to add exposed PVC piping to route around a leak inside a wall that was also feeding mold. Half of the work involved each time I call someone is understanding the hidden stuff + getting stuff out of t…

My dad, who has been a carpenter for over 50 years used to rail against boxing in pipes.

"Once upon a time people were just glad to have running water, now it has to arrive by magic"

In his house there is a duct behind the skirting boards upstairs. You can fish a wire to most places from there.

His other pet hate was glued down cupboard flooring. Squeaky floors were a common complaint in new houses. It was normally caused by not levelling the first floor joists properly (levelling the tops is the correct way), and just dropping them on the walls. The solution industry came up with was to glue the tounges and grooves together, and later to glue the boards to the joists as well. This is a big problem if you need to take up the floor for a leaking pipe. Whereas before you just cut the tongue of a board with a circular saw, pulled it up, and put a noggin under the joint, now you have to destroy a board, and try and buy a similar one

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#174

Post by lazide »

willis936 wrote: post #101
trollbridge wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or AI’s thirst for power will bring coal back.

Why would heightened electricity demand increase the use of the most expensive energy source?

Solar is cheap and abundant during daytime. It has zero power at night. Coal/gas/nukes are more expensive, but runs 24/7. Batteries are getting cheaper, but are still not that cheap.

AI/Data centers need power 24/7.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#175

Post by jimnotgym »

BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #67

As a German I always found North American houses and their drywall and wood constructions incredibly odd. It always felt flimsy to me. From my experience we just started using drywall for some interior walls on some newly built homes. But throughout my life I was used to very massive walls. I recently saw some house building videos and it is somehow fascinating how different the building materials and methodologies a…

I left the building trade in the UK about 20 years ago.

The UK is a damp place! We built one-off- houses. We built exclusively with 'brick and block'. Brick outside (to take the weather), cavity and block inside. Downstairs walls were block. Upstairs walls were studding, unless blocks were required to go up to support roof purlins.

The blocks inside were normally 'dry lined', sheets of 'plasterboard' (what we call drywall) 'dabbed' to the blocks with a plaster-like adhesive. Often these were 'Thermal boards', plasterboard laminated to urethane insulation foam. Plasterboard was always 'skimmed', plastered over with a plaster designed for this. The drying time is much lower than 'wet plastering' on the blocks.

On big spec built sites they were using prefab timber frames instead of blocks for the inner wall. Then they would plasterboard, and just fill the joints (no skimming). This is always considered a lower spec than skimmed walls.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#176

Post by wellf »

What about cement render? Seems like plaster board and plastering was only mentioned.

I am sure plastering was common in 80s too but maybe misremembering.

edit: seen other comments and that was/is "modern plastering" i.e. with backing boards.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#177

Post by anonymousDan »

bombcar wrote: post #159
_alternator_ wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is different—the cost of plastic goes up if fossil fuel consumption goes down because currently it uses a waste stream. Not sure if it’s true, but it’s different than my prior intuition about fossil fuel and plastic.

Exactly - a common understanding of fossil fuels is that we could just "use them for planes and plastics" but there would be an unexpected cost there - because the plastics are basically "free" waste products of processing for other needs. It's similar to how car heaters work on waste heat from ICE and have to be accounted for in electric cars.

[flagged]

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#178

Post by anonymousDan »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #143
pibaker wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the prevalence of "flimsy" wood and drywall constructions to be part of the reason why Americans dislike apartment living. They provide little sound insulation, are prone to water damage, have a shorter lifespan than the average person and once they catch fire they burn the entire thing down. Concrete or brick buildings are much nicer to live in, but expensive, so they are not very common among new construc…

Concrete or brick buildings are effectively illegal in much of the US because they aren’t safe. Large parts of the US are prone to earthquakes far more severe than any in Europe, a fact learned the hard way. It destroyed all of the prior masonry and brick buildings in the US so that type of construction is no longer allowed. Your choices are pretty much wood-frame or steel-frame construction. That said, plenty of ste…

Very interesting perspective, thanks. One of the other comments mentioned that in Tokyo they heavily use concrete blocks. Not sure how accurate that is but how does their approach differ to the US?

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#179

Post by willis936 »

lazide wrote: post #174
willis936 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would heightened electricity demand increase the use of the most expensive energy source?

Solar is cheap and abundant during daytime. It has zero power at night. Coal/gas/nukes are more expensive, but runs 24/7. Batteries are getting cheaper, but are still not that cheap. AI/Data centers need power 24/7.

Yes so use the cheaper methane gas turbine combined cycle power plant. Coal can't compete with higher efficiency, cheaper fuel options.

Re: The wonder of modern drywall

#180

Post by lazide »

willis936 wrote: post #179
lazide wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar is cheap and abundant during daytime. It has zero power at night. Coal/gas/nukes are more expensive, but runs 24/7. Batteries are getting cheaper, but are still not that cheap. AI/Data centers need power 24/7.

Yes so use the cheaper methane gas turbine combined cycle power plant. Coal can't compete with higher efficiency, cheaper fuel options.

In areas where there are gas transmission lines, sure. Large portions of the country don’t have that infrastructure built out yet, but do have rail lines which provide coal.

It’s also a timing/capital issue.

It will change eventually, but in the meantime people need their kWh.

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