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Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

ziglang.org

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Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#31

Post by zarzavat »

Pay08 wrote: post #24
pjmlp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other languages debate for years, because they have a customer base with important applications into production that don't find funny that their code is broken with experiments. Zig is years away to become industry relevant, if at all, of course they can experiment all they like.

Obviously, that comes with the language being in beta. If you don't want things broken, use a complete language.

It's hard to imagine Zig ever becoming stable and conservative. Even at 10 years old, it's still as beta as ever. At some point the churn becomes part of the culture.

Not a complaint, just an observation. I like that they are trying new things.

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#32

Post by Ygg2 »

ofalkaed wrote: post #16
gethly wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Being at 0.16 right now does not mean much. From what I gather, he is more focused on the semantics right now and trying to avoid getting bitten by a lack of foresight down the road, as most every language is. Things will probably start moving more quickly as the language solidifies.

Any backwards compatible language will accumulate hindsight errors. It's practically inevitable.

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#33

Post by gethly »

Phil_Latio wrote: post #25
gethly wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that it was Jai that inspired all these new languages. When you talk about the capabilities like comptime, that's all from Jai and why John no longer does public presentations(as people keep stealing his unfinished ideas). Your comment about gamedev focus makes no sense as that it the most hardcore segment of all the programming there is. So if a language is good for gamedev, it's good for everything else -…

> why John no longer does public presentations(as people keep stealing his unfinished ideas) That's your opinion or you have a source for that?

he said it in a video, i think it was in the recent wookash podcast. although you might fing a short clip of the segment somewhere.

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#34

Post by gethly »

pjmlp wrote: post #22
cloudhead wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Zig has a lot of traction already.

Except for Tiger Beetle customers and the few ones using Bun, what traction?

I've read Bun is just a wrapper, not actual Zig implementation anyway. Also, making a financial database in beta language that constantly changes and breaks is "really smart".

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#35

Post by nickorlow »

pjmlp wrote: post #21
BonusPlay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of debating for years (like other languages), zig just tries things out. Worst case you can always rollback changes. IMO best APIs and designs are those that are battle tested by end users, not won in an argument war during committee meetings. This makes zig unique. It's fun to use and it stays fresh. You can always just stay on older version of zig. But if you choose to update to newer version, you get new t…

Other languages debate for years, because they have a customer base with important applications into production that don't find funny that their code is broken with experiments. Zig is years away to become industry relevant, if at all, of course they can experiment all they like.

I think it benefits the overall ecosystem for them to experiment so other languages can take what works

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#36

Post by Pay08 »

stock_toaster wrote: post #30
small_model wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are high profile apps written in Zig, Bun (bought by Anthropic) and Ghostty also Uber use it. What apps are written in Jai or Odin.

odin - jangafx’s embergen[1] jai - thekla’s new game, announced but not yet released —- order of the sinking star[2] [1]: https://jangafx.com/software/embergen [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Sinking_Star

That's next to nothing for Jai.

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#37

Post by quietbritishjim »

BonusPlay wrote: post #5
gethly wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Instead of debating for years (like other languages), zig just tries things out. Worst case you can always rollback changes. IMO best APIs and designs are those that are battle tested by end users, not won in an argument war during committee meetings. This makes zig unique. It's fun to use and it stays fresh. You can always just stay on older version of zig. But if you choose to update to newer version, you get new t…

> Instead of debating for years (like other languages), zig just tries things out.

Many other languages do try things out, they just do it in a separate official channel from the stable release or unofficial extensions. Depending on how many users the language has, that may still be more implementation experience than Zig making all devs try it.

I suspect the actual difference is the final decision making process rather than the trial process. In C++, language extensions are tried out first (implementation experience is a requirement for standard acceptance) but committee debates drag on for years. Whereas Python also requires trial periods outside the stable language but decisions are made much more quickly (even now that there's a steering rather than single BDFL).

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#38

Post by Pay08 »

zarzavat wrote: post #31
Pay08 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, that comes with the language being in beta. If you don't want things broken, use a complete language.

It's hard to imagine Zig ever becoming stable and conservative. Even at 10 years old, it's still as beta as ever. At some point the churn becomes part of the culture. Not a complaint, just an observation. I like that they are trying new things.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I do think there's a bit of scope creep, especially with the LLVM replacement stuff, but I don't think it's bad enough for the language to never come out. Most notable languages have at least one large corporate sponsor behind them, Zig doesn't.

Re: Zig – io_uring and Grand Central Dispatch std.Io implementations landed

#39

Post by dmit »

gethly wrote: post #34
pjmlp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for Tiger Beetle customers and the few ones using Bun, what traction?

I've read Bun is just a wrapper, not actual Zig implementation anyway. Also, making a financial database in beta language that constantly changes and breaks is "really smart".

A wrapper over what?? Bun includes the JavaScriptCore engine for JS evaluation, but it's so much more.

As for financial database concerns, if you're serious about including a project like that in your system, you have thorough correctness and performance testing stages before you commit to it. And once it passes the hurdles, at that point what difference does it make if it's written in a beta language, or a bunch of shell scripts in a trench coat, or whatever.

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