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GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

openai.com

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Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#121
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the critical bit (paraphrasing): Humans have worked out the amplitudes for integer n up to n = 6 by hand, obtaining very complicated expressions, which correspond to a “Feynman diagram expansion” whose complexity grows superexponentially in n. But no one has been able to greatly reduce the complexity of these expressions, providing much simpler forms. And from these base cases, no one was then able to spot a…

You should probably email the authors if you think that's true. I highly doubt they didn't do a literature search first though...

Don't underestimate the willingness of physicists to skimp on literature review.

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#122
post #67

I guess the important question is, is this enough news to sustain OpenAI long enough for their IPO?

Well it’ll be at least a whole month before some other company announces similar capability. The moat will hold!

I believe Gemini holds the moat now.

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#123
post #11

The headline may make it seem like AI just discovered some new result in physics all on its own, but reading the post, humans started off trying to solve some problem, it got complex, GPT simplified it and found a solution with the simpler representation. It took 12 hours for GPT pro to do this. In my experience LLM’s can make new things when they are some linear combination of existing things but I haven’t been to g…

This is the critical bit (paraphrasing): Humans have worked out the amplitudes for integer n up to n = 6 by hand, obtaining very complicated expressions, which correspond to a “Feynman diagram expansion” whose complexity grows superexponentially in n. But no one has been able to greatly reduce the complexity of these expressions, providing much simpler forms. And from these base cases, no one was then able to spot a…

  > I think this was all already figured out in 1986 though
They cite that paper in the third paragraph...

  Naively, the n-gluon scattering amplitude involves order n! terms. Famously, for the special case of MHV (maximally helicity violating) tree amplitudes, Parke and Taylor [11] gave a simple and beautiful, closed-form, single-term expression for all n.
It also seems to be a main talking point.

I think this is a prime example of where it is easy to think something is solved when looking at things from a high level but making an erroneous conclusion due to lack of domain expertise. Classic "Reviewer 2" move. Though I'm not a domain expert and so if there was no novelty over Parke and Taylor I'm pretty sure this will get thrashed in review.

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I haven’t been to get them to do something totally out of distribution yet from first principles Can humans actually do that? Sometimes it appears as if we have made a completely new discovery. However, if you look more closely, you will find that many events and developments led up to this breakthrough, and that it is actually an improvement on something that already existed. We are always building on the shou…

Relativity comes to mind. You could nitpick a rebuttal, but no matter how many people you give credit, general relativity was a completely novel idea when it was proposed. I'd argue for special relatively as well.

I am not a scientific historian, or even a physicist, but IMO relativity has a weak case for being a completely novel discovery. Critique of absolute time and space of Newtonian physics was already well underway, and much of the methodology for exploring this relativity (by way of gyroscopes, inertial reference frames, and synchronized mechanical clocks) were already in parlance. Many of the phenomena that relativity would later explain under a consistent framework already had independent quasi-explanations hinting at the more universal theory. Poincare probably came the closest to unifying everything before Einstein:

> In 1902, Henri Poincaré published a collection of essays titled Science and Hypothesis, which included: detailed philosophical discussions on the relativity of space and time; the conventionality of distant simultaneity; the conjecture that a violation of the relativity principle can never be detected; the possible non-existence of the aether, together with some arguments supporting the aether; and many remarks on non-Euclidean vs. Euclidean geometry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_special_relativity

Now, if I had to pick a major idea that seemed to drop fully-formed from the mind of a genius with little precedent to have guided him, I might personally point to Galois theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galois_theory). (Ironically, though, I'm not as familiar with the mathematical history of that time and I may be totally wrong!)

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#125
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the critical bit (paraphrasing): Humans have worked out the amplitudes for integer n up to n = 6 by hand, obtaining very complicated expressions, which correspond to a “Feynman diagram expansion” whose complexity grows superexponentially in n. But no one has been able to greatly reduce the complexity of these expressions, providing much simpler forms. And from these base cases, no one was then able to spot a…

You should probably email the authors if you think that's true. I highly doubt they didn't do a literature search first though...

They also reference Parke and Taylor. Several times...

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#126
AI can be an amazing productivity multiplier for people who know what they're doing.

This result reminded me of the C compiler case that Anthropic posted recently. Sure, agents wrote the code for hours but there was a human there giving them directions, scoping the problem, finding the test suites needed for the agentic loops to actually work etc etc. In general making sure the output actually works and that it's a story worth sharing with others.

The "AI replaces humans in X" narrative is primarily a tool for driving attention and funding. It works great for creating impressions and building brand value but also does a disservice to the actual researchers, engineers and humans in general, who do the hard work of problem formulation, validation and at the end, solving the problem using another tool in their toolbox.

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#127
post #126

AI can be an amazing productivity multiplier for people who know what they're doing. This result reminded me of the C compiler case that Anthropic posted recently. Sure, agents wrote the code for hours but there was a human there giving them directions, scoping the problem, finding the test suites needed for the agentic loops to actually work etc etc. In general making sure the output actually works and that it's a s…

Actually, the results were far worse and way less impressive than what the media said.

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#128

"An internal scaffolded version of GPT‑5.2 then spent roughly 12 hours reasoning through the problem, coming up with the same formula and producing a formal proof of its validity." When I use GPT 5.2 Thinking Extended, it gave me the impression that it's consistent enough/has a low enough rate of errors (or enough error correcting ability) to autonomously do math/physics for many hours if it were allowed to [but I gu…

after those 30 min you can manually ask it again to continue working on the problem

It's a bit unclear to me what happens if I do that after it thinks for 30 minutes and ends with no response. Does it start off where it left off? Does it start from scratch again? Like I don't know how the compaction of their prior thinking traces work

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#129
post #107

It's interesting to me that whenever a new breakthrough in AI use comes up, there's always a flood of people who come in to handwave away why this isn't actually a win for LLMs. Like with the novel solutions GPT 5.2 has been able to find for erdos problems - many users here (even in this very thread!) think they know more about this than Fields medalist Terence Tao, who maintains this list showing that, yes, LLMs hav…

It is not only the the peanut gallery that is skeptical: https://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=15362 Let's wait a couple of days whether there has been a similar result in the literature.

For the sake of clarity: Woit's post is not about the same alleged instance of GPT producing new work in theoretical physics, but about an earlier one from November 2025. Different author, different area of theoretical physics.

Re: GPT-5.2 derives a new result in theoretical physics

#130
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big LLM sceptic but that's… moving the goalposts a little too far. How could an average Joe even understand the conjecture enough to write the initial prompt? Or do you mean that experts would give him the prompt to copy-paste, and hope that the proverbial monkey can come up with a Henry V? At the very least posit someone like a grad student in particle physics as the human user.

That's kinda the whole point. SpaceX can use an optimization algorithm to hoverslam a rocket booster, but the optimization algorithm didn't really figure it out on its own. The optimization algorithm was used by human experts to solve the problem.

In this case there certainly were experts doing hand-holding. But simply being able to ask the right question isn't too much to ask, is it? If it had been merely a grad student or even a PhD student who had asked ChatGPT to figure out the result, and ChatGPT had done that, even interactively with the student, this would be huge news. But an average person? Expecting LLMs to transcend the GIGO principle is a bit too much.
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