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Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

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Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#41

Post by hearsathought »

kayo_20211030 wrote: post #12

> And culture is, by and large, random, arbitrary, and self-reinforcing. The best definition of "culture" I've ever found is "how we do things 'round here". It's valid in both the large and in the small. Of course, why and how we converge on those norms is mysterious, and the anthropologists, the psychologists, and etc. can have a go at explaining those parts. I can't.

> > And culture is, by and large, random, arbitrary, and self-reinforcing.

Culture, by and large, isn't random nor arbitrary. Culture is obviously influenced by the past and the environment, but it's mostly artificially created by the elites. Once established it is self-reinforcing.

> Of course, why and how we converge on those norms is mysterious, and the anthropologists, the psychologists, and etc. can have a go at explaining those parts. I can't.

It's not mysterious. Monkey see, monkey do. We see the higher ups do it and we mimic. Or we are told this is how we do things and we obey. This applies to nations, corporations and families.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#42

Post by jchanimal »

jazzpush2 wrote: post #39
throw7 wrote: post #28

Queueing culture is hilarious. Indians > Italians (ok, Italians are probably more entertaining), brits (I imagined them trying to bring queueing to indians and gave up... although india does have a semi-line culture in limited ways nowadays). As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me.

Queuing culture is just baseline respect from my POV. Same with not littering, respecting shared (public) resources, etc. Actually quite unbelievable to see it considered hilarious.

Certain workflows prefer non-queueing, for instance the throng empowers the bartender to load balance different groups, delay drinks to over consumers, etc etc. So other cultures can have those workflows in places we might not expect, that is not necessarily a matter of respect. In pub culture, queueing disrespects the bartender.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#43

Post by jazzpush2 »

jchanimal wrote: post #42
jazzpush2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Queuing culture is just baseline respect from my POV. Same with not littering, respecting shared (public) resources, etc. Actually quite unbelievable to see it considered hilarious.

Certain workflows prefer non-queueing, for instance the throng empowers the bartender to load balance different groups, delay drinks to over consumers, etc etc. So other cultures can have those workflows in places we might not expect, that is not necessarily a matter of respect. In pub culture, queueing disrespects the bartender.

You're conflating efficiency norms with respect norms. Never mind that the core reason for no queues in bars is space efficiency and historical norms, allowing the bartender to select regulars, better paying customers, etc. without being stressed for time.

But in any case, your edge-cas applies when someone exists to manage the queue. That's not the case for e.g. elevators, self-checkout lanes, DMV lines, or, I'd argue, that vast majority of queues encountered regularly.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#44

Post by svnt »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #34
svnt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human concept of materialism appears to have been produced by historical humans who were also conscious, which at least sets an order. To call this into question is to render logical debate incoherent. Materialism is a theory, not a reality, but its adherents can't tell the difference.

So your epistemology is historicism?

Did you recently discover the idea of epistemology or does your line of questioning have a purpose?

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#45

Post by svnt »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #37
svnt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human concept of materialism appears to have been produced by historical humans who were also conscious, which at least sets an order. To call this into question is to render logical debate incoherent. Materialism is a theory, not a reality, but its adherents can't tell the difference.

> To call this into question is to render logical debate incoherent. Unfortunately there are quite a few things of that nature. In no case does it justify blindly picking one of the options and then following up with bold claims based on an arbitrary assumption.

Where did I make the case that it does?

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#46

Post by svnt »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #35
svnt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are nearly defined by their access to the abstract. The abstract is definitionally non-material.

I dunno about that, latent spaces are looking pretty material these days. I've got several variants saved to my local disk.

Map meets territory.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#47

Post by bwfan123 »

strogonoff wrote: post #36
bwfan123 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> culture is intertwined with the hard problem of consciousness Majority of people are sleep-walking as machines driven by imitation, habit and external forces. We live in a dreamlike, mechanical state lacking the awareness of this itself. apropos: Gurdjieff

Very uncharitable and questionable on a few levels. Every human exists in context of society, no human exists standalone—the very definition of self , as in self-awareness, has the existence of other as a prerequisite. People you see are perfectly aware of themselves; it’s just that awareness of yourself does not mean you have to violate societal norms and show how individual you are all the time—at best, it requires…

> People you see are perfectly aware of themselves

Are they rote-students imitating or copying memes and as such are driven by inadequate-ideas or are they students who understand the subject from its first assumptions and as such are driven by adequate-ideas. In the quote above, the suggestion is that majority are rote-students.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#48

Post by socalgal2 »

rayiner wrote: post #10
righthand wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of our non-major cities are even bigger dumps then. I live in Nyc for 8 years. I didn’t sit around the whole time b-ing and moaning that the city had a trash problem. I got involved in my community and active in the political movements here. When you start making issues visible and get your neighbors vocalizing the issues themselves, a lot more gets done than being in a “grumpy mood” about it indefinitely. The re…

> I got involved in my community and active in the political movements here. When you start making issues visible and get your neighbors vocalizing the issues themselves But you didn't actually succeed in cleaning up New York, right? So maybe the problem is a culture that prioritizes "making issues visible" and engaging the "community" in "political movements," instead of every parent teaching their child from a youn…

Is it a culture of "not my problem"?

Maybe bad example but, Let's say you spill some food at a fast food place, shopping mall, airport. Do you make an effort to clean it up yourself or are you like "It's someone's job to clean this place therefore I can just leave it for them".

Maybe that's too harsh an example but I see locals cleaning the streets in Japan, not government hired street sweepers. I don't know the details if they just did it, or if they registered to volunteer to be responsible for that area, or if there is more to it. And I also don't know if they feel put-out, as in "why am I doing this" vs proud for making the area clean.

> provo and salt lake

Not sure in what dimension? Plenty of neighborhoods in larger LA, SF, SD, Seattle, are clean.

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#49

Post by renato_shira »

pixl97 wrote: post #5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_tunnel The human brain is one of the most powerful filtering devices that exists. If you train it not to see something, that something can effectively disappear for you. Families, cults, and even societies quite often work on this premise.

[flagged]

Re: Culture Is the Mass-Synchronization of Framings

#50

Post by profsummergig »

jazzpush2 wrote: post #39
throw7 wrote: post #28

Queueing culture is hilarious. Indians > Italians (ok, Italians are probably more entertaining), brits (I imagined them trying to bring queueing to indians and gave up... although india does have a semi-line culture in limited ways nowadays). As an american, grocery checkout queueing always angered me.

Queuing culture is just baseline respect from my POV. Same with not littering, respecting shared (public) resources, etc. Actually quite unbelievable to see it considered hilarious.

> Queuing... not littering, respecting shared (public) resources

Well, Indians are the pits in all 3, so your definition computes.

Source: am Indian.

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