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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#401

Post by lysace »

kdheiwns wrote: post #305
arexxbifs wrote: post #45

Sweden introduced a similar scheme in 1964, in which artists (broadly defined, having since come to include one clown and one chess player) have been given a basic income, supplementing their other incomes up to a specific level. Artists couldn't apply for this, but were officially selected. The program was stopped in 2010, meaning no new recipients have been selected since. As far as I know, there's been no studies…

Sweden punches far above its weight in game development (allegedly up to 20% of Steam revenue all goes to Swedish teams [1]), so if any people on any Swedish game developers have ever benefited from that program, I'd say the whole country has. That's surely been a huge benefit in terms of tax revenue, plus the gaming industry brings a lot of great minds to Sweden as well as improving their cultural soft power. [1] ht…

They have not, afaik. Here's the list of recipients:

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statlig_inkomstgaranti_f%C3%B6...

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#402

Post by carlosjobim »

digiown wrote: post #117
mikkupikku wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the best way to do it. Otherwise all the money will go to the rich brat children of politicians/etc who are socially connected to whoever they put on the selection committees.

I'm not sure that's true. What kind of rich brat will go through the trouble of all that for a couple hundred euros a month? Random isn't a bad way of doing it in any case though.

Rich parents are masters of helping their children exploit the system in as many of the thousands of ways that exist. A few hundred here, another hundred there, maybe some one-off thousands here.

In most of the world, rich people are rich because they are good at exploiting government funds. It's a lifestyle.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#403

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

philipallstar wrote: post #335
pwim wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s plenty of things that are valuable for society while still not having significant financial value.

Money is generally how we describe value.

What I would suggest you do is, find a loving partner to start a family with, then do everything you can for 20 years to focus primarily on earning, or otherwise acquiring, money.

Then get divorced and discover your children don’t know who you are, and neither do you. And your wife took the dog too.

It’s an almost guaranteed way to eradicate this wildly stupid idea you have.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#404

Post by carlosjobim »

sgt wrote: post #271
Thlom wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That being said, it seems like this is being phased out. No new "statsstipendiat" has been awarded since 2019. Before that it was mostly 1-3 persons awarded each year.

That's silly, I think more should be handed out, to encourage art and culture and let it grow organically. But I guess with the Norske Krone doing so weak and the economy and all...

Nobody is stopping you from handing out stipends to any artist you'd like to support.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#405

Post by closewith »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #367
jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

When Nirvana first moved from their small Washington town to Seattle, they were able to pay their rent + everything else from working minimum wage jobs for 2 weeks a month. They had time to practice music and pursue their art. In an era where working a full time job is not enough to pay the cost of living, arts and culture no longer exist except as hobbies for rich kids. Seattle successfully exterminated their entire…

> In an era where working a full time job is not enough to pay the cost of living, arts and culture no longer exist except as hobbies for rich kids.

In Ireland _today_, we are in an era where working as a nurse, paramedic, firefighter, teacher, etc have become unable to pay the cost of living, leaving them to exist only as hobbies for the rich kids who can be subsidised by their parents or immigrant labour willing to be exploited to avoid deportation.

Is health not wealth? Education? Safety? Or does only the arts deserve this subsidisation?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#406

Post by closewith »

dgb23 wrote: post #386
ap99 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only tax people so much before it's too much. effective tax rates 0% ... not realistic outside very unique circumstances. 25% ... feels fair to me. 33% ... still fair but yeah 1 out of every 3 days worked you start to feel that. 50% ... the border of fair and unfair. if i keep less than half of what i make, that feeling of fairness wears thin. Now, when you are near that border of fair and unfair and then you…

Ireland is a tax haven though?

Definitely not a tax haven for the population. It has the highest income redistribution in Europe.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#408

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

BryantD wrote: post #398
closewith wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society has not disintegrated. Obviously not because of this income scheme and not complete disintegration, but Irish society is under extreme strain from housing pressures, rising living costs, and growing polarisation that is tearing at social cohesion. It's frustrating to see funds allocated to this scheme when health, housing, transport, etc are all failing apart.

All true, but let's not lose track of relative costs. The income program provides €33,800,000 a year (2000 participants, €325 a week, 52 weeks in a year). Double that to account for cost of managing the program -- that seems too high to me, but I want to err on the side of caution for this analysis. Some percentage of that money flows right back into the economy, of course. Meanwhile, ignoring windfall corporate taxe…

This program has nothing going for it.

That 33 million could have built, let’s say, 66 houses and housed, let’s say, 264 people (66 families of four) for a generation before needing much in the way of maintenance.

But no, fuck the working poor, let’s fund artists.

Myopic.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#409

Post by k__ »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #369

Nearly every great work of literature in the English canon was written by someone who was "on the dole" at the time.

Those programs make economic sense if the successful artists later pay for it with their taxes.

If they leave the country, then not so much.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#410

Post by Xunjin »

jimnotgym wrote: post #385
ap99 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only tax people so much before it's too much. effective tax rates 0% ... not realistic outside very unique circumstances. 25% ... feels fair to me. 33% ... still fair but yeah 1 out of every 3 days worked you start to feel that. 50% ... the border of fair and unfair. if i keep less than half of what i make, that feeling of fairness wears thin. Now, when you are near that border of fair and unfair and then you…

What has that got to do with my comment?

Literally nothing... I'm just lost like you are, I assume he is bringing other discussions IRL without providing context.
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