Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 736 posts

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#371

Post by p_v_doom »

pash wrote: post #220
s_dev wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irish here. It's a cultural thing. Ireland is the only country in the world whose national symbol is a musical instrument. Art is seen as a worthwhile endeavour even if it can't necessarily support itself as a private endeavour. It's for the same reason galleries and museums are subsidised by the government. Anyone can call themselves an artist but to receive this money you would have to have a portfolio of work that…

Milton Friedman wouldn’t have approved of a basic-income scheme restricted to artists. He would have argued that restricting the benefit to artists would distort incentives for choosing a profession in a way likely to reduce social welfare, and that eligibility by profession is a “welfare trap”: it’s hard to stop being an artist and start being something else when it means losing your guaranteed income. But Friedman…

Friedman is also not someone anyone should be taking seriously in the year of our lord '26

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#373

Post by Schlagbohrer »

In Iceland, if a band can get an international tour scheduled, the Icelandic government will pay their tour costs. I believe Ireland has a similar plan of support for artists who can gain an audience abroad. Those nations know that the creativity of their people is a renewable resource and an economic engine as well as a source of cultural "soft power".

I absolutely do not expect sillycon valley libertarians to understand or appreciate any of this so probably a good idea to avoid the comment section here...

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#374

Post by inglor_cz »

direwolf20 wrote: post #322
inglor_cz wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more intellectuals had their "brain on capitalism". It is dismaying to find out how many American academicians take Marxism seriously - unless they stem from countries like Cuba that had the misfortune to actually let Marxist ideas rule them. It is mental fentanyl for certain kind of collectivist mind. Give me Hayek and Buckley instead.

Which ideas constitute Marxism?

In theory? The most obvious is labor theory of value, plus false consciousness and the division of the society into exploitative class and exploited class.

In practice? For example, nationalization of businesses and collectivization in rural areas, including suppression of "kulaks".

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#375

Post by nandomrumber »

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

> I like to imagine what they could have done had they been at leisure to work and perform all day.

Probably nothing.

The idle rich and trust fund kids aren’t exactly know for producing, well, anything of value, really.

Getting paid to sit around all day and do fuck-all isn’t exactly character building.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#376

Post by _heimdall »

whiplash451 wrote: post #350
fedeb95 wrote: post #325

this kind of reasoning will accumulate so much inefficiencies that it will eventually blow up. Or, in the best case scenario, create a proportional inflation that makes this subsidies useless. Think about the big picture: your salary is a cost for someone else. In the case of "basic income" is a cost for the tax payers. Who decides what benefits the tax payers? The state can't possibly do it, if not for a limited ext…

Countries benefit massively from art. First-grade art attracts wealthy people who pay local taxes and wealthy tourists who contribute to the economic cycle of the country. For some European countries, the numbers are mind-blowing.

What you're describing then would only be a short term chicken and egg problem.

If, once established, a thriving art scene generates value by attracting tourism, wealthy individuals who want to patronize the arts, etc then the artists would be able to charge enough to fund themselves and potentially do very well for themselves.

In that scenario we'd only need to fully subsidize artists for a short period of time, the subsidy law should have an expiry date.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#377

Post by inglor_cz »

Schmerika wrote: post #358
inglor_cz wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar program in the Netherlands once ran for decades. It produced about quarter a million uh, tangible units of art, which not even government institutions wanted anymore, not even for free. The warehouses became full and dusty. This was later one of the motivations to cancel the program.

Not that similar though. What you're talking about is paying people to produce 'art' by the unit. This scheme is about paying credentialed artists so they can breath a little bit. No need to supply slop.

Yes, there are differences.

BTW credentialism - good or bad? It certainly seems to me that the idea of credentials has crept from medicine, law and engineering into formerly freer and more bohemian territories. An idea of a perepiska for singers or actors would be considered absurd by most people in history. But once money transfers are in place, bureaucracy inevitably follows.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#378

Post by jimnotgym »

nandomrumber wrote: post #375
jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

> I like to imagine what they could have done had they been at leisure to work and perform all day. Probably nothing. The idle rich and trust fund kids aren’t exactly know for producing, well, anything of value, really. Getting paid to sit around all day and do fuck-all isn’t exactly character building.

He was in his 40s when he wrote his most famous work, that would qualify as a portfolio in Ireland and get the grant.

I reckon the 20 years as an iron puddler he had done by then had built his character already.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#379

Post by BSDobelix »

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

>Go Ireland, great scheme. I wish we had it over here in the UK.

It's a bad scheme, it divide's your population into people who have to create "wealth", and people who create "art".

Yes creating art (or preserving rare potatoes[1]) should be supported by your government if it's not survivable in a capitalistic society, however having different rights because of your occupation is not better then the middle ages.

[1] https://irishpotatofederation.ie/varieties/

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#380

Post by wooger »

direwolf20 wrote: post #320
mike_hearn wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ireland already has a competitive economy Ireland's economic statistics are so badly distorted by US companies routing money there that there is an entire subfield of economics dedicated to trying to figure out what Ireland's real economic state is, called "Leprechaun economics". A common adjustment made by economics researchers when studying the EU is to just subtract Ireland entirely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

It's nice that they still get taxes on that money, and use it to support artists.

They don't get the appropriate taxes on that money, which is the whole reason those US companies route money there in the first place.
Post reply on HN