Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Claude Code is being dumbed down?

symmetrybreak.ing

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

611–620 of 732 posts

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#611

Post by SPICLK2 »

bombela wrote: post #488
bcherny wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes totally. ctrl+o used to show all messages, but this is one of the tricky things about building in a terminal: because many terminals are quite slow, it is hard to render a large amount of output at once without causing tearing/stutter. That said, we recently rewrote our renderer to make it much more efficient, so we can bump up the default a bit. Let me see what it feels like to show the last 10-20 messages -- fi…

Just tell people to install a fast terminal if they somehow happen to have a slow one? Heck, simply handle the scrolling yourself a la tmux/screen and only update the output at most every 4ms? It's so trivial, can't you ask your fancy LLM to do it for you? Or you guys lost the plot at his point and forgot the most basics of writing non pessimized code.

I'm with you on this one. "Terminals are too slow to support lots of text so we had to change this feature in unpopular ways" is just not a plausible reason, as terminals have been able to dump ~1Mb per second for decades.

The real problem is their ridiculous "React rendering in the terminal" UI.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#612

Post by SPICLK2 »

bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

I don't see how you can blame terminal applications - they typically have been able to dump around 1Mb of output per second for decades.

https://martin.ankerl.com/2007/09/01/comprehensive-linux-ter...

Could the React rendering stack be optimised instead?

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#613

Post by insanedeisgn »

bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

[flagged]

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#614

Post by sigmarule »

SPICLK2 wrote: post #612
bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

I don't see how you can blame terminal applications - they typically have been able to dump around 1Mb of output per second for decades. https://martin.ankerl.com/2007/09/01/comprehensive-linux-ter... Could the React rendering stack be optimised instead?

I believe he is speaking of the effective resolution of TUIs, not pty throughput rates or fps, though I do agree with what you’re actually getting it.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#615

Post by thecupisblue »

bcherny wrote: post #402
steinnes wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t count how many times I benefitted from seeing the files Claude was reading, to understand how I could interrupt and give it a little more context… saving thousands of tokens and sparing the context window. I must be in the minority of users who preferred seeing the actual files. I love claude code, but some of the recent updates seem like they’re making it harder for me to see what’s happening.. I agree with…

I think folks might be crossing wires a bit. To make it so you can see full file paths, we repurposed verbose mode to enable the old explicit file output, while hiding more details behind ctrl+o. In effect, we've evolved verbose mode to be multi-state, so that it lets you toggle back to the old behavior while giving you a way to see even more verbose output, while still defaulting everyone else to the condensed view.…

Maybe during onboarding you could ask for output preference? That would at least help new users.

I find this decision weird due to claude _code_, while being used by _some_ non-technical users, is mostly used by technical users and developers.

Not sure why the choice would be to dumb the output down for technical users/developers.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#616

Post by JV00 »

adastra22 wrote: post #592
bcherny wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think folks might be crossing wires a bit. To make it so you can see full file paths, we repurposed verbose mode to enable the old explicit file output, while hiding more details behind ctrl+o. In effect, we've evolved verbose mode to be multi-state, so that it lets you toggle back to the old behavior while giving you a way to see even more verbose output, while still defaulting everyone else to the condensed view.…

We don’t want verbose mode. We don’t want the whole file contents. We are not asking for that. What is not clear here? All we want is the file paths. That is all. Verbose mode pulls in a lot of other information that might very well be needed in other contexts. People who want that info should use verbose mode. All we want is the regular non-verbose mode, with paths. I fail to see how it is confusing to users, even n…

Verbose mode does exactly what you want as of v2.1.39, you are confusing it with the full transcript which is a different feature (ctrl+o). You enable verbose mode in /config and it gives you files read and search patterns and token count, not whole file contents.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#617

Post by kaizenb »

bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

Thanks Boris, great insights for builders.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#618

Post by SPICLK2 »

sigmarule wrote: post #614
SPICLK2 wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you can blame terminal applications - they typically have been able to dump around 1Mb of output per second for decades. https://martin.ankerl.com/2007/09/01/comprehensive-linux-ter... Could the React rendering stack be optimised instead?

I believe he is speaking of the effective resolution of TUIs, not pty throughput rates or fps, though I do agree with what you’re actually getting it.

From the list of problems they are experiencing with rendering in the terminal, it sounds like they want a GUI (Electron would be a good fit).

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#619

Post by ako »

co_king_3 wrote: post #96
ako wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand how you can conclude that LLMs are a dead end: I’ve already seen so much useful software generated by LLMs, there’s no denying that they are a useful tool. They may not replace seniors developers, and they have their limitations, but it’s quite amazing what they already do achieve.

Have you seen all the dogshit software generated by LLMs?

I also have seen lots of dogshit software created by Humans. And i have created useful software with LLMs. If you know how to manage the LLM, it can be very useful.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#620

Post by stingraycharles »

steinnes wrote: post #400
bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

I can’t count how many times I benefitted from seeing the files Claude was reading, to understand how I could interrupt and give it a little more context… saving thousands of tokens and sparing the context window. I must be in the minority of users who preferred seeing the actual files. I love claude code, but some of the recent updates seem like they’re making it harder for me to see what’s happening.. I agree with…

What annoys me is that I don’t have the choice anymore. It’s just decided that thinking is not possible to see anymore, files being read are very difficult to see, etc.

I understand that I’m probably not the target audience if I want to actually step in and correct course, but it’s annoying.

Post reply on HN