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Claude Code is being dumbed down?

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Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#451

Post by cyanydeez »

vintagedave wrote: post #117

> That’s it. “Read 3 files.” Which files? Doesn’t matter. “Searched for 1 pattern.” What pattern? Who cares. Product manager here. Cynically, this is classic product management: simplify and remove useful information under the guise of 'improving the user experience' or perhaps minimalism if you're more overt about your influences. It's something that as an industry we should be over by now. It requires deep understa…

Paranoid schizo here: This actually seems to be a way to flag users into whales and fishes, and to treat the whales as marks to dumb down their entire needs of LLM value.

People who toggle debug will get "full" access and those who dont care, probably won't notice if their LLM us is degraded.

It seems a pure market segmenting prior to a "shrinkflation" approach to cost management.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#452

Post by bcherny »

ctoth wrote: post #448
bcherny wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey -- we take accessibility seriously, and want Claude Code to work well for you. This is why we have repurposed verbose mode to do what you want, without the other verbose output. Please give it a try and let me know what you think.

> we take accessibility seriously Do you guys have a screen reader user on the dev team? Is verbose mode the same as the old mode, where only file paths are spoken? Or does it have other text in it? Because I tried to articulate, and may have failed. More text is usually bad for me. It must be consumed linearly. I need specific text. Quality over quantity

"Is verbose mode the same as the old mode, where only file paths are spoken?" -- yes, this is exactly what the new verbose mode is.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#453

Post by InvisGhost »

ukuina wrote: post #95
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #78

https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/8477 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/15263 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/9099 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/8371 It's very clear that Anthropic doesn't really want to expose the secret sauce to end users. I have to patch Claude every release to bring this functionality back.

Patching's not long for this world; Claude Code has moved to binary releases. Soon, the NPM release will just be a thin wrapper around the binary.

Where there's a will, there's a way

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#454

Post by cyanydeez »

gchamonlive wrote: post #395
bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

So in a nutshell Claude becoming smarter means that logic that once resided in the agent is being moved to the model? If that's the case, it's important to asses wether it'll be consistent when operating on a higher level, less dependent on the software layer that governs the agent. Otherwise it'll risk Claude also becoming more erratic.

I'm going to be paranoid and guess they're trying to segment the users into those that'll notice they're dumbing down the system via caches, limited model via quantized downgrade and those that expect the fully available tools.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#455

Post by elzbardico »

eldenring wrote: post #205
elzbardico wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you pay for the less outrageously subsidized rates of API instead of the a bit less incredibly generous prices of the subscription.

Its not subsidized, in fact, they probably have very healthy margins on Claude Code.

Yeah. If you ignore the negligible fact that some investor may want a return on all that money that is going into capex I am pretty sure you can, Enron style, get to the conclusion that any of those companies have “healthy” margins.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#456

Post by eterm »

bcherny wrote: post #445
trb wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've commented on this ticket before: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/8477#issuec... The thinking mode is super-useful to me as I _often_ saw the model "think" differently from the response. Stuff like "I can see that I need to look for x, y, z to full understand the problem" and then proceeds to just not do that. This is helpful as I can interrupt the process and guide it to actually do this. With t…

Yep, this is what we landed now, more or less: verbose mode is just file paths, then ctrl+o gives you thinking, agent output, and hook output.

Have you considered picking a new name for a different concept?

Or have ctrl+o cycle between "Info, Verbose, Trace"?

Or give us full control over what gets logged through config?

Ideally we would get a new tab where we could pick logging levels on:

  - Thoughts
  - Files read / written
  - Bashes
  - Subagents
etc.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#457

Post by prawn »

ares623 wrote: post #410
latchkey wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insanely good response. History, backstory, we screwed up, what we're doing to fix it. Keep up the great work!

would've been better to post the prompt directly IMO

Prompts can be the new data compression. Just send your friend a prompt and the heartfelt penpal message gets decompressed at their end.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#458

Post by Johnny_Bonk »

I unfortunately have unsubbed from my 200 plan after having it for months, It really really seems to me that you never 100% feel like you're getting 4.6 and the same was happening with 4.5, some sessions it truly felt like haiku was being used despite the default setting and high thinking.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#459

Post by puppymaster »

gambiter wrote: post #450
bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

> We can no longer design for ourselves, and we rely heavily on community feedback to co-design the right experience. We cannot build the right things without that feedback. How can that be true, when you're deliberately and repeatedly telling devs (the community you claim to listen to) that you know better than they do? They're telling you exactly what they want, and you're telling them, "Nah." That isn't listening.…

interesting. they have been pretty receptive to my pull comments and discourse on issues. To each's anecdote I suppose.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#460

Post by lysace »

bcherny wrote: post #386

Hey, Boris from the Claude Code team here. I wanted to take a sec to explain the context for this change. One of the hard things about building a product on an LLM is that the model frequently changes underneath you. Since we introduced Claude Code almost a year ago, Claude has gotten more intelligent, it runs for longer periods of time, and it is able to more agentically use more tools. This is one of the magical th…

> Terminals give us relatively few pixels to play with; they have a single font size; colors are not uniformly supported; in some terminal emulators, rendering is extremely slow.

That's why I use your excellent VS Code extension. I have lots of screen space and it's trivial to scroll back there, if needed.

I would really like even more love given to this. When working with long-lived code bases it's important to understand what is happening. Lots of promising UX opportunities here. I see hints of this, but it seems like 80% is TBD.

Ideally you would open source the extension to really use the creativity of your developer user base. ;)

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