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GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

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Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#91

Post by visarga »

btbuildem wrote: post #36
mythz wrote: post #5

It's looking like we'll have Chinese OSS to thank for being able to host our own intelligence, free from the whims of proprietary megacorps. I know it doesn't make financial sense to self-host given how cheap OSS inference APIs are now, but it's comforting not being beholden to anyone or requiring a persistent internet connection for on-premise intelligence. Didn't expect to go back to macOS but they're basically the…

> doesn't make financial sense to self-host I guess that's debatable. I regularly run out of quota on my claude max subscription. When that happens, I can sort of kind of get by with my modest setup (2x RTX3090) and quantized Qwen3. And this does not even account for privacy and availability. I'm in Canada, and as the US is slowly consumed by its spiral of self-destruction, I fully expect at some point a digital iron…

Your $5,000 PC with 2 GPUs could have bought you 2 years of Claude Max, a model much more powerful and with longer context. In 2 years you could make that investment back in pay raise.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#92

Post by CodeCompost »

cogman10 wrote: post #76
CodeCompost wrote: post #68

[flagged]

The protest was 1989. Interestingly GLM4.7-flash has no problem talking about it. Here's the output when I asked about it. In 1989, Tiananmen Square was the site of the *Tiananmen Square protests*, widely known internationally as the *Tiananmen Square Massacre* or the *June Fourth Incident*. Here is a summary of the events: *Causes and Beginning* The protests began on April 15, 1989, following the death of *Hu Yaoban…

I probably confused it because it was in 1989.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#93

Post by Havoc »

ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #13
Mashimo wrote: post #3

Wut? Was glm 4.7 not just a few weeks ago? I wonder if I will be able to use it with my coding plan. Paid just 9 usd for 3 month.

Nope. Lite plan receives only same-tier model updates.

I don't see it as selectable my side either (opencode & max plan)

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#94

Post by kataklasm »

jsheard wrote: post #53
btbuildem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't make financial sense to self-host I guess that's debatable. I regularly run out of quota on my claude max subscription. When that happens, I can sort of kind of get by with my modest setup (2x RTX3090) and quantized Qwen3. And this does not even account for privacy and availability. I'm in Canada, and as the US is slowly consumed by its spiral of self-destruction, I fully expect at some point a digital iron…

I think AI may be the only place you could get away with calling a 2x350W GPU rig "modest". That's like ten normal computers worth of power for the GPUs alone.

Did you even try to read and understand the parent comment? They said they regularly run out of quota on the exact subscription you're advising they subscribe to.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#95

Post by alias_neo »

Mashimo wrote: post #3

Wut? Was glm 4.7 not just a few weeks ago? I wonder if I will be able to use it with my coding plan. Paid just 9 usd for 3 month.

What's the use case for Zai/GLM? I'm currently on Claude Pro, and the Zai looks about 50% more expensive after the first 3 months and according to their chart GLM 4.7 is not quite as capable as Opus 4.5?

I'm looking to save on costs because I use it so infrequently, but PAYG seems like it'd cost me more in a single session per month than the monthly cost plan.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#96

Post by roywiggins »

budududuroiu wrote: post #78
mikehearn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that converting static text into an LLM is sufficiently transformative to qualify for fair use, while distilling one LLM's output to create another LLM is not. Whether you buy that or not is up to you, but I think that's the fundamental difference.

> The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit has affirmed a district court ruling that human authorship is a bedrock requirement to register a copyright, and that an artificial intelligence system cannot be deemed the author of a work for copyright purposes > The court’s decision in Thaler v. Perlmutter,1 on March 18, 2025, supports the position adopted by the United States Copyright Office and is the latest chap…

Thaler v. Perlmutter is an a weird case because Thaler explicitly disclaimed human authorship and tried to register a machine as the author.

Whereas someone trying to copyright LLM output would likely insist that there is human authorship is via the choice of prompts and careful selection of the best LLM output. I am not sure if claims like that have been tested.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#97

Post by sowbug »

zozbot234 wrote: post #77
wongarsu wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-hosting training (or gaming) makes a lot of sense, and once you have the hardware self-hosting inference on it is an easy step. But if you have to factor in hardware costs self-hosting doesn't seem attractive. All the models I can self-host I can browse on openrouter and instantly get a provider who can get great prices. With most of the cost being in the GPUs themselves it just makes more sense to have others d…

If you can get near 100% utilization for your own GPUs (i.e. you're letting requests run overnight and not insisting on any kind of realtime response) it starts to make sense. OpenRouter doesn't have any kind of batched requests API that would let you leverage that possibility.

In Silicon Valley we pay PG&E close to 50 cents per kWh. An RTX 6000 PC uses about 1 kW at full load, and renting such a machine from vast.ai costs 60 cents/hour as of this morning. It's very hard for heavy-load local AI to make sense here.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#98

Post by amenhotep »

jaccola wrote: post #54
NiloCK wrote: post #29

Grey market fast-follow via distillation seems like an inevitable feature of the near to medium future. I've previously doubted that the N-1 or N-2 open weight models will ever be attractive to end users, especially power users. But it now seems that user preferences will be yet another saturated benchmark, that even the N-2 models will fully satisfy. Heck, even my own preferences may be getting saturated already. Op…

I have no idea how an LLM company can make any argument that their use of content to train the models is allowed that doesn't equally apply to the distillers using an LLM output. "The distilled LLM isn't stealing the content from the 'parent' LLM, it is learning from the content just as a human would, surely that can't be illegal!"...

When you buy, or pirate, a book, you didn't enter into a business relationship with the author specifically forbidding you from using the text to train models. When you get tokens from one of these providers, you sort of did.

I think it's a pretty weak distinction and by separating the concerns, having a company that collects a corpus and then "illegally" sells it for training, you can pretty much exactly reproduce the acquire-books-and-train-on-them scenario, but in the simplest case, the EULA does actually make it slightly different.

Like, if a publisher pays an author to write a book, with the contract specifically saying they're not allowed to train on that text, and then they train on it anyway, that's clearly worse than someone just buying a book and training on it, right?

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#99

Post by oceanplexian »

mythz wrote: post #58
btbuildem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't make financial sense to self-host I guess that's debatable. I regularly run out of quota on my claude max subscription. When that happens, I can sort of kind of get by with my modest setup (2x RTX3090) and quantized Qwen3. And this does not even account for privacy and availability. I'm in Canada, and as the US is slowly consumed by its spiral of self-destruction, I fully expect at some point a digital iron…

Did the napkin math on M3 Ultra ROI when DeepSeek V3 launched: at $0.70/2M tokens and 30 tps, a $10K M3 Ultra would take ~30 years of non-stop inference to break even - without even factoring in electricity. Clearly people aren't self-hosting to save money. I've got a lite GLM sub $72/yr which would require 138 years to burn through the $10K M3 Ultra sticker price. Even GLM's highest cost Max tier (20x lite) at $720/…

Doing inference with a Mac Mini to save money is more or less holding it wrong. Of course if you buy some overpriced Apple hardware it’s going to take years to break even.

Buy a couple real GPUs and do tensor parallelism and concurrent batch requests with vllm and it becomes extremely cost competitive to run your own hardware.

Re: GLM-5: Targeting complex systems engineering and long-horizon agentic tasks

#100

Post by ljosifov »

mythz wrote: post #58
btbuildem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't make financial sense to self-host I guess that's debatable. I regularly run out of quota on my claude max subscription. When that happens, I can sort of kind of get by with my modest setup (2x RTX3090) and quantized Qwen3. And this does not even account for privacy and availability. I'm in Canada, and as the US is slowly consumed by its spiral of self-destruction, I fully expect at some point a digital iron…

Did the napkin math on M3 Ultra ROI when DeepSeek V3 launched: at $0.70/2M tokens and 30 tps, a $10K M3 Ultra would take ~30 years of non-stop inference to break even - without even factoring in electricity. Clearly people aren't self-hosting to save money. I've got a lite GLM sub $72/yr which would require 138 years to burn through the $10K M3 Ultra sticker price. Even GLM's highest cost Max tier (20x lite) at $720/…

Everyone should do the calculation for themselves. I too pay for couple of subs. But I'm noticing having an agent work for me 24/7 changes the calculation somewhat. Often not taken into account: the price of input tokens. To produce 1K of code for me, the agent may need to churn through 1M of tokens of codebase. IDK if that will be cached by the API provider or not, but that makes x5-7 times price difference. OK discussion today about that and more https://x.com/alexocheema/status/2020626466522685499
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