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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#851

Post by NicuCalcea »

SomeUserName432 wrote: post #742
NicuCalcea wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just now how it works in most of Europe. I've lived in four countries, had accounts with lots of banks, paid for countless plane tickets and booking reservations, and only had a credit card once when I was issued one at work. I don't expect I'd ever get a personal one, and can't think of anyone that regularly uses one. The only time I even considered it was to build a credit score in the UK to eventually apply f…

My only data point from Europe is Norway, where credit cards are widely adopted. There are also official debt registries, where you (and prospective lenders) can look up how much debt you have. A bit different than the credit score concept.

Seems you're right, Norway has one of the highest credit card ownership rates in the world. https://genderdata.worldbank.org/en/indicator/fin10

In Moldova where I'm from, only 8% of adults have one.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#852

Post by [deleted] »

citrin_ru wrote: post #676
buzer wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to AP News ( https://apnews.com/article/international-court-sanctions-tru... ) at least one judge had his bank accounts closed. So it's not just your own government who can debank you in Europe. Of course in this judge's case there might still be some banks who are willing to work with him even at the risk of getting sanctioned as there weren't language in the news that he was completely debanked which I as…

The main problem IMHO that a bank access not seen as a right. Even Russia which is neither powerful (unlike the US) nor an EU ally can de-bank Russian critics living in the EU (and other places) by reporting them to FATF. AML is ripe for abuse.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#853

Post by prmoustache »

severino wrote: post #530
prmoustache wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact you have the visa or mastercard logo doesn't mean you can't avoit to use their tech for your daily payments. Example, in France most debit and credit cards are called "carte bleue" (literally blue card) but all of them either have a visa/mastercard logo. However when you pay with them you can decide with the merchant to use the CB system or the visa/mastercard. Sadly very few people know that and do the sele…

Interesting. I don't think there's anything similar here in Spain, though. On the other hand, in this same thread, somebody said Visa acquired that "Carte Bleue" system, and Wikipedia states it was discontinued in 2010. So maybe it's not possible to use anything other than visa/mc in France anymore

You mention an interesting thing I didn't realize before. Carte Bleues, the brand, seems to have been sold to Visa but CB, the payment system would still be a separate thing and now mean Carte Bancaire. It is not helped by the fact that french people literally adopted carte bleue as a generic name for payment cards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB_Bank_Card_Group

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#854

Post by swiftcoder »

joe_mamba wrote: post #316
digiown wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really a human right issue. No one should be required to carry an attacker-controlled tracking device, especially not for interacting with the government. It's funny that the EU uses all this mobile attestation BS more than the US does. So much for sovereignty and consumer protection. No monopoly Google can build is as good as the government forcing you to accept their terms.

>No one should be required to carry an attacker-controlled tracking device What about being required to carry a your-own-government-controlled tracking device? Because the US or Chine government can't harm me in Europe via the data they collect from me, But the EU authorities can if they want to, so naturally I fear them more if they were the ones hoovering my data. What are the odds they're using this on-shore tech…

> What about being required to carry a your-own-government-controlled tracking device?

What part of the cellphone manufacturer being based overseas makes you think the government can't track you via it?

Even leaving asides 5-eyes style data-sharing agreements, your US/Chinese smartphone still connects through a domestic cellphone carrier, using a domestic number. That's enough to have at a minimum fine-grained location tracking, call logs, and data usage.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#855

Post by Etheryte »

Etheryte wrote: post #788
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

This shows a fundamental understanding about the market you're commenting on. The European market is nothing like the US market. The vast majority of transfers are already debit based. Most people have a credit card, but for most part it's not a daily driver. Many European countries don't have credit scores at all, and in the ones that do, it isn't nearly as important as in the US. Since there isn't much of a practic…

I meant to write misunderstanding, sorry about the typo.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#856

Post by mustyoshi »

locknitpicker wrote: post #823
joe_mamba wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Moreau is apparently a Russian citizen living in Russia since 2013. Is he not still a French born citizen deserving of a fair trial? Or should getting a dual citizenship of a foreign passport, of a nation that later becomes an adversary, become an automatic death sentence? US should then put all it citizens with Cuban and Iranian passports in jail with that logic. And then what about Jacques BAUD who's Swiss living…

> Or should getting a dual citizenship of a foreign passport, of a nation that later becomes an adversary, become an automatic death sentence? You seem to be invested in trying to stitch together flimsy arguments based on specious reasoning. Your so-called victims are Russian agents with Russian nationality which have been engaged directly with a totalitarian regime that is engaged in war across Europe, both cold and…

Anything the government does should be viewed with the lens of "do I want somebody who hates me to have this power".

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#857

Post by phyzix5761 »

severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

Any solution they come up with will benefit some company that implements the solution. Most likely there already exists a company (it could be Visa or Mastercard) that has the solution ready and they're lobbying for this to happen.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#858

Post by [deleted] »

hiire wrote: post #215
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

Wero is expanding around Belgium, France and Germany while Bizum has "joined" the European Payments Alliance with Bancomat and SIBS from Italy and Portugal respectively, not sure how these work exactly as I'm also located in Spain. My point being, if these payment systems start becoming more interconnected and join within a standard, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually saw Bizum cards around here, Wero cards in…

[deleted]

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#859

Post by phyzix5761 »

SomeUserName432 wrote: post #273
ericmay wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it sucks for everyone haha. It's an objectively worse experience compared to just using a card (debit or credit).

The vendors you'd pay with Pix in brazil are typically the vendors who may not even accept cards at all, it's pix or cash. (Although you CAN pay with pix at many supermarkets, I'd rate it as rare. Also useable for online payments, but you take the risk in case of fraud, unlike with creditcards)

How do they get the cash? I'm assuming from an ATM with a Visa or Mastercard.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#860

Post by Maken »

hiire wrote: post #215
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

Wero is expanding around Belgium, France and Germany while Bizum has "joined" the European Payments Alliance with Bancomat and SIBS from Italy and Portugal respectively, not sure how these work exactly as I'm also located in Spain. My point being, if these payment systems start becoming more interconnected and join within a standard, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually saw Bizum cards around here, Wero cards in…

The transition will be probably smooth and transparent for business and consumers. Banks are already deploying payment terminal able to handle both Bizum and VISA/Mastercard [1]. Since banks own these terminals, they can decide how fast they want Bizum adoption to spread. Business don't even need to opt-in into it. At some point they can simply start charging for credit/debit cards and people will naturally switch to Bizum.

[1] https://www.bbva.com/es/es/empresas/bbva-primer-banco-en-esp...

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