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Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

nytimes.com

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Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#31

Post by wseymour »

[deleted] wrote: post #22
cubicle67 wrote: post #17

this is where your US infinite detention becomes interesting. Both Obama and Romney support the infinite detention of American citizens without trial, but most people aren't worried as it's "only for the bad guys" What happens when you get on the bad side of the gov, like this guy? Declare someone a Domestic Terrorist and you can lock them away for good. Sure, it almost certainly won't be used in this case but that's…

[deleted]

I think you should be stating _which_ economic theory you claim to know.

Those who subscribe to the Austrian school of economics, for example, might argue that allowing banks to print their own currency which represents their gold holdings, is _more efficient_ and less liable to failure than the centralised fiat system we have right now.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#32

Post by bitops »

mseebach wrote: post #30
bitops wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if they're made from gold and silver, wouldn't they be more valuable than the coins they were confused with? Sort of, but not really. The issue here is mixing the ideas of "a dollar" with "a piece of gold worth a dollar" or "a piece of silver worth a dollar". They are not the same thing. There's an abstract notion of 'Value: $1.00' that both a piece of paper and a piece of gold links up to. Hopefully that is a…

No, I get they're not the same thing, that's why I stated that it's dumb they've been issuing coins that resemble dollars. But it would appear that the counterfeit coins are actually worth more than the real coins - that's usually not the point of counterfeiting, and that makes it unclear who the victim of this crime really is.

[original comment redacted]

> that makes it unclear who the victim of this crime really is.

Ah, okay - sorry, I missed this. There isn't really "a victim" here per se; it'd be hard to point at a person and say that they were hurt by what this guy was doing. Rather, it's a crime because it has the potential to destabilize the rules of how our financial system works. And, by implication, how our political system works. Money and politics go together, everyone accepts this.

Government rhetoric (I guess) requires them to label it terrorism, but that's really stupid. They could have used it as an opportunity to explain how our economic system actually works. Of course, if you explain how the system works, people may ask deeper questions, etc.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#33

Post by brc »

bitops wrote: post #21
TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After doing a tiny bit of research (google and wikipedia), it seems mens rea does not apply if said crime is considered a strict liability crime. Examples are selling alcohol to underage, or statutory rape. Counterfeiting is another strict liability crime. His real crime is, of course, competing with the government. You will lose, unless you take up arms. The government has no problems using excessive force to stop y…

This is one of the few times I'd ever say that government crackdown is a good thing. One country having multiple currencies at the same time could become a big logistical headache. It would definitely have political and social implications. [EDIT: I welcome downvotes on comments that are not constructive. If you think this is totally off the wall, please give a good explanation why.]

A very weak argument.

In many places around the world, several currencies exist and are used simultaneously.

It's only a problem for the weak currency, which according to Greshams Law, everyone tries to get rid of, while hoarding the stronger currency.

The reason the government doesn't want competition in the currency business is because they like to weaken their currency. The government currency would be discarded quickly, while the competing currency would be hoarded.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#34

Post by hristov »

bluedanieru wrote: post #10
bluedanieru wrote: post #4

Whatever asshole compared this guy to Rosa Parks needs to get some perspective.

Downvoted, eh? Yeah I suppose we can compare the struggle of an entire race to break free from systemic and institutional oppression and exploitation, to a bunch of illiterate college students playing at economics.

I upvoted you myself, but please do not complain about downvotes.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#36

Post by bluedanieru »

mseebach wrote: post #14
bluedanieru wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Big Macs for a barrel? Honest question.

Sure, show me anyone who will consistently convert big macs to US dollars, and I will happily show you the division button on your calculator. In case you need it spelled out, there is, and has always been, a liquid market for the conversion of gold into US dollars. There isn't one for converting Big Macs into anything. They're worthless for trading the second they cross the counter at McDonald's. For someone lashing…

As already noted, I was referring to the Big Mac index. Continue playing at economics though, sorry for interrupting.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#37

Post by jQueryIsAwesome »

cubicle67 wrote: post #17

this is where your US infinite detention becomes interesting. Both Obama and Romney support the infinite detention of American citizens without trial, but most people aren't worried as it's "only for the bad guys" What happens when you get on the bad side of the gov, like this guy? Declare someone a Domestic Terrorist and you can lock them away for good. Sure, it almost certainly won't be used in this case but that's…

Democracy (+Capitalism) is not working for many countries and USA is the best example, I honestly think that even monarchy would be better; there is a small chance a prince would happen to grow up to be an intelligent good person but in your system the only 2 candidates are cherry picked by the people with very deep pockets trying to make those deeper.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#38

Post by hristov »

ekianjo wrote: post #13
raverbashing wrote: post #3

Gold backed currency is overrated If you disagree with me you can go and convert your savings into gold (but you are probably doing it already) Remember, you still need US dollars to buy oil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar

Convert your dollars in gold. Wait 10 years. If all goes well you will have gained a good percentage of US dollars once you decide to sell your gold to buy stuff again. It's difficult to predict the future value of Gold, but there's no way a paper money, backed by inflationary FED, is not going to lose value against something as solid as Gold.

There is a way and it has already happened many times. You goldbugs need to learn some history and gain a bit of perspective.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#39

Post by brc »

raverbashing wrote: post #3

Gold backed currency is overrated If you disagree with me you can go and convert your savings into gold (but you are probably doing it already) Remember, you still need US dollars to buy oil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar

I am certain that many oil producing nations would be only too happy to exchange their oil for gold.

Re: Prison May Be the Next Stop on a Gold Currency Journey

#40

Post by bitops »

brc wrote: post #33
bitops wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the few times I'd ever say that government crackdown is a good thing. One country having multiple currencies at the same time could become a big logistical headache. It would definitely have political and social implications. [EDIT: I welcome downvotes on comments that are not constructive. If you think this is totally off the wall, please give a good explanation why.]

A very weak argument. In many places around the world, several currencies exist and are used simultaneously. It's only a problem for the weak currency, which according to Greshams Law, everyone tries to get rid of, while hoarding the stronger currency. The reason the government doesn't want competition in the currency business is because they like to weaken their currency. The government currency would be discarded q…

> In many places around the world, several currencies exist and are used simultaneously.

You need to back this argument up with a good reference.

[EDIT: multiple currencies in the same country. Argentina is a beautiful country but it has had some severe issues over the years. You need to have one currency before you can do things like local currencies. URVs in Brazil were a genius way of pulling this off.]

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