Trump is so crazy, it made Europe build alternatives to Visa and Mastercard. Unprecedented.
Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
401–410 of 1001 posts
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
In UK, consumer protection for Credit Cards is guaranteed by law (Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act), but not for Debit Cards (that's contractual).
The UK is often completely out of step with consumer protections in the EU.
I think some examples are in order - where has the UK, having recently left the EU, changed its laws so that it was completely out of step with consumer protection? Or is this one thing that made it necessary for them to leave the union, perhaps?
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like sepa, this initiative can be forced by law and made open rather than tanken hostage by large cooperates, which may then exclude parts of the market.
Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law. Is Wero really a success? According to this article, in 2024 it processed over €7.5 billion. Polish BLIK, which is not even mentioned in the article and which has joined the EuroPA Alliance, processed €83 billion in 2024, with a 30% y/y increase in H1 2025. I understand that BLIK is much older, but it invested significant effort and money in marketing and promotion…
Wero is very new, no wonder it’s not used a lot yet.
Wero is basically a rename (and territorial expansion) of the Dutch iDeal system, which processed €141 billion Euros in 2024.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they are trying to quickly create alternatives to anything American They're the same bright minds that ensured no alternatives could naturally come out of the European market trough relentless bureaucratic central planning. I have zero hopes of a good outcome
Actually European integration the last 30 years has been pretty remarkable. In the past, not even electric plugs were compatible. But the EU is not a country. A lot of the inefficiencies are actually features sought by key members to protect their own local incumbents.
Your best example of European integration is electric plugs?
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#405> Wero lets users send money using just a phone number Of course, what could go wrong!! Unbelievable, a chance to make a whole new standard, new system, new everything, but yet we still have the need to tie it to ancient protocols, only to find later it’s broken by design and we start adding all sort of duct tape solutions to make it “secure”.. This is either a completely and entirely stupid move by some boomers livi…
We have had these apps in various EU countries for quite a while and it's been fine. You can get a prepaid SIM from a grocery store and register it with them, and so on. You can always SEPA transfer the money if you don't want to use this.
It's also more convenient than giving out an opaque UUID to your friend to transfer you money or something similar.
The bigger problem I see with this is it being one more service locked exclusively to Android and iOS devices, but it's the same with most currently used banking apps anyways.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are taking a percentage point or two on the entire consumer payment system. I think there's plenty of money to back all the activity. Especially if there are central banks willing to back them
> They are taking a percentage point or two on the entire consumer payment system. Visa/MC make about 0.1-0.13% of each transaction, not a 1-2%. The rest of the interchange (the vast majority) goes to the issuing bank.
Doesn't it depend on the country? Payments with Visa and MasterCard work very differently in various countires. In Poland you can pay 0.01€ with credit card and the seller will happily oblige. In Germany even few Euros they prefer to be paid in cash.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's probably a little bit harder than you think with all the rules and regulations out there. I would highly encourage anybody who's remotely interested, listen to the Acquired podcast episode regarding Visa. It's actually quite fascinating how it was started. You may balk at the length, but the whole thing had me interested. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa
India built RuPay, China built UnionPay. There's no reason why Europe can't do the same.
European countries each have their system. But they do not interoperate. You can't pay with blik in Germany, you can't pay with German debit card in Poland.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its not just American tourists. Its everyone from everywhere. If you do not accept Visa and Mastercard you are not going to accept payments from all sorts of travellers (tourists, business people, people from your own country living abroad) either. > I guarantee there are a large number of people in rural Europe that would be very happy never to meet another American tourist, even if it costs them. Xenophobic or anti…
> If you do not accept Visa and Mastercard you are not going to accept payments from all sorts of travellers (tourists, business people Who all stop in chain hotels, who will accept whatever you bring. > Xenophobic or anti-tourism? Anti-American tourism. I would say it is a mainstream opinion in Europe that American tourists are very annoying. Each country has its stereotypes about each other, usually stemming from W…
> Who all stop in chain hotels, who will accept whatever you bring.
No, that's pretty much all European hotels actually. Hotels require credit cards for three reasons:
1. Security - if you leave the room a mess or destroyed there's an avenue for recourse.
2. To make more money - having a card on file for "incidentals" increases purchases from hotel guests.
3. Obtain payment - most people don't have the cash laying around to pony up to pay full nightly rates, nor do they have any desire carry thousands of Euros around on their person just to go pay in a large purchase at this conjured up local cash-only inn. It also makes your hotel property an easy target for robbery.
It's strange to me that you're taking such a hard stance over something that is obviously incorrect in order to... make fun of people from around the world who can only afford to stay in chain hotels on vacation?
I usually stay boutique properties which are sometimes, but not always managed by boutique property groups. They take credit cards. Every. Single. Time.
Can you provide the name of a single hotel in Europe that doesn't take credit cards?
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
IIRC, ICC judges lost access to their O365 work email accounts. Worst the US can do to me is turn off my Steam, and Gmail but I can easily live without those. Now imagine being debanked by your own government because they don't like what you're saying and becoming unemployed, homeless and dead. I don't think they're remotely comparable. For example, a few years ago, a power tripping gov bureaucrat turned off my unemp…
It's all the same. How is suing Google any different, if you instead get debanked by Google for violating their "terms"? The only solution is untraceable, permissionless money, like Monero. Why do you think governments try so hard to ban it?
Being de-Googled is a hardship, though there are replacements for virtually all its services. I acknowledge you are well informed on this topic.
It is not unreasonable for governments to pursue avenues for laundering money. I recognize that you likely don't believe governments should prosecute money laundering, but that view is not aligned with the majority of citizens in your country.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#410“Has begun” as in recent? BankAxept has been in use in Norway since 1991 to avoid the VISA/Mastercard “tax”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankAxept
Biggest banks here refused to support Apple Pay and worked hard on legislations to open NFC access. Now we can pay with no fees to Visa/Mastercard or Apple even from our phones.