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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#381

Post by Curiositiy »

gdulli wrote: post #166
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

I use my credit and debit cards the same way today as I did before smartphones existed. I never invited the extra surveillance middleman of Google/Apple into my transactions. And the convenience of tapping or swiping a plastic card is simpler than using my phone anyway. Is this not possible in Spain?

Thanks! ANOTHER SANE voice of reason! Nothing tops the simplicity of using plastic, either via chip or NFC. Leave the friggen' phone at home!

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#382

Post by digiown »

joe_mamba wrote: post #379
digiown wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all the same. How is suing Google any different, if you instead get debanked by Google for violating their "terms"? The only solution is untraceable, permissionless money, like Monero. Why do you think governments try so hard to ban it?

> if you instead get debanked by Google for violating their "terms" Since when is google a bank? >The only solution is untraceable, permissionless money, like Monero. Why do you think governments try so hard to ban it? Because untraceable currency is mostly used by criminals for crime.

Your bank (like most European ones) requires you to pass attestation to use their services. If you don't accept Google/Apple's terms, you can't access it without extreme difficulty.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#383

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

An Indian friend of mine, constantly raves about their UPI system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface

It sounds a lot like what they're discussing.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#385

Post by munk-a »

severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

Canada has the interac system and it works pretty wonderfully, it's integrated into other systems for overseas compatibility but it can operate entirely independent of VISA/Mastercard if the POS supports it.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#386

Post by miohtama »

Archelaos wrote: post #371
joe_mamba wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one should be required to carry an attacker-controlled tracking device What about being required to carry a your-own-government-controlled tracking device? Because the US or Chine government can't harm me in Europe via the data they collect from me, But the EU authorities can if they want to, so naturally I fear them more if they were the ones hoovering my data. What are the odds they're using this on-shore tech…

The odds are very low. It all depents on the people. So far, the European citizens are very privacy senstive. The European institutions are characterized by a huge devision of power. There is no chance that European instutitions can impose their will against a considerable majority of people. If people turn away from liberal democracy, that's another matter. But then everything is lost anyway.

> There is no chance that European instutitions can impose their will against a considerable majority of people

The EU commission just passed chat control to have government mandated software in every phone

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#387

Post by supertrope »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #198
ncruces wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Even if it does, Google won't be taking a cut from it. Also, it's then much easier to provide a mobile web version, or something else. My country's internal system also sells a bracelet for contactless payments, and there are obviously payment cards. Once there's a mandatory standard, it's much more likely competition will show u…

What would Google prevent from taking a similar cut as Apple is taking?

Lack of negotiation power. Less control over Android than Apple has over iOS.

Google keeps self-sabotaging Android Pay. They lacked market power so cellular carriers blocked it hoping to advance their own payment ecosystem (ISIS). Google changes the payment brand every few years, and fragments it into two separate apps or combines them. It's rather like their messaging strategy.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#388

Post by joe_mamba »

digiown wrote: post #382
joe_mamba wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you instead get debanked by Google for violating their "terms" Since when is google a bank? >The only solution is untraceable, permissionless money, like Monero. Why do you think governments try so hard to ban it? Because untraceable currency is mostly used by criminals for crime.

Your bank (like most European ones) requires you to pass attestation to use their services. If you don't accept Google/Apple's terms, you can't access it without extreme difficulty.

I can always access my bank via a web browser or even in person at the teller at a branch somewhere, or as a last resort via snail mail from attorney, but most importantly even if I get locked out somehow by google, the account still runs and I won't be homeless as my salary and rent auto-payments keep going regardless if you can access it or not.

How is this comparable to your government debanking you meaning that no bank, landlord, layer or job will touch you?

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#389

Post by supertrope »

hearsathought wrote: post #296
gdulli wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use my credit and debit cards the same way today as I did before smartphones existed. I never invited the extra surveillance middleman of Google/Apple into my transactions. And the convenience of tapping or swiping a plastic card is simpler than using my phone anyway. Is this not possible in Spain?

> I never invited the extra surveillance middleman What's an extra layer of surveillance? Why accept the "credit and debit" surveillance middlemen but not the google/apple middlenmen? What the world needs are "cash cards". Something equivalent to cash not tied to your identity that you can use in the real and virtual world. I simply do not understand why governments or the private sector do not provide such options.

Governments frown upon KYC-less digital purse cards. Gotta force everyone to share their national ID number to just open a bank account to keep out drug dealers, terrorists, or NSFW game peddlers.

Banks generally don't like disposable digital purse cards. They make money off fees and interest. If a product doesn't rope you into a customer "relationship" where you link your pay deposits or later might get a mortgage or car loan they can only make money off fees. Enjoy paying $5 to activate a $100 prepaid debit card!

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#390

Post by dmix »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #337
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #100

I'm surprised that Canada doesn't seem to be talking about doing this. We've already got a strong payment processing brand with Interac, it's used daily for millions of debit transactions, and supports all the features you'd expect (in Canada) from a payment card (tap, chip&pin). There's also the MasterCard Debit and Visa Debit branding which seem to bridge debit transactions to the MasterCard and Visa networks. And…

The Canadian government has been trying for about 4-5 years now to get Canadian banks to embrace Open Banking, which will allow these sorts of products to be built quickly. The banks have consistently refused to do anything, because they don't want any change that threatens their oligopoly. Canadian bank services are more or less the same as they were a decade ago. The current government will have to show that it can…

Indeed, no one seems to ever talk about the banking monopoly in Canada so it's not a big political issue. It's not nearly as controversial as the telecom or airline monopolies.

There are some new banking startups popping up in Canada like Neo Financial (from the guys who made SkipTheDishes) but they are online-only and have limited integration with stuff like Plaid.

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