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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#121

Post by bigbadfeline »

mindslight wrote: post #94
worik wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The difference now is the number of people feeling effected It always been thus for people at the margins

So we agree, including that there is a difference.

> So we agree, including that there is a difference.

No, that's a distinction without a difference. I mean, it doesn't matter in the slightest if at some point in time certain powers weren't abused, if they're being abused now the situation cannot be tolerated.

Arguing about how it's possible not to abuse the system is a waste of time at best and a diversion at worst.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#122

Post by jacquesm »

diego_moita wrote: post #9

Does anyone still remember when Western countries were scared of Huawei because the Chinese would use their hardware to spy on people? Well, guess what? The U.S. also has their own Huawei. But, at least, they're "democratic" and follow "the rule of the law" (for whatever these words mean nowadays).

Both are wrong.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#123

Post by chaps »

mindslight wrote: post #82
LtWorf wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly. These times never existed.

I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize being in the middle of the slippery slope as if it is merely the same as being at the top of the slippery slope was. They may not have been "good" times, but they were certainly better times when government agencies at least aimed to carry out their roles in good faith rather than minmaxing the rules to cause the most damage to enemies of the Party. Applying judgemen…

And I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize the awfulness of the past. We can be pragmatic in recognizing that "our guys" also did bad things. Less bad than awful is still bad. If we choose not to recognize our own foibles then we just fall down our old patterns of "it's someone else's problem".

Because otherwise, better than what we have now is an abysmal target and we should aim for better.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#124

Post by ses1984 »

themaninthedark wrote: post #115
mindslight wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize being in the middle of the slippery slope as if it is merely the same as being at the top of the slippery slope was. They may not have been "good" times, but they were certainly better times when government agencies at least aimed to carry out their roles in good faith rather than minmaxing the rules to cause the most damage to enemies of the Party. Applying judgemen…

No. Full stop. Laws are supposed to be crafted to be as applied by anyone, anywhere and at any time. This is why lawyers and politicians are supposed to have foresight and be prudent. You look at prior events and see them as justified due to the people involved and situations. If the US government can, for example investigate Richard Spencer or some other extremist figure based on a web post, then they can do the sam…

From my point of view it looks like the right only protests when it’s not their side.

That’s why Al franken resigned for a dumb photo, meanwhile republicans protect pedophile traffickers.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#125

Post by frumplestlatz »

nomel wrote: post #117
panarky wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that Apple fights administrative subpoenas issued by US federal agencies? Or is Google just more transparent than Apple about the government orders it complies with? For example, after the Department of Justice demanded app stores remove apps that people use to track ICE deployments, Apple was the first to comply, followed later by Google.

It's a constitutional right to record them doing their duties, in public. That's clear. Here's a question: Is making a reporting system around that, for the purpose of/approaches/is realtime tracking, also protected? Maybe related to "non-permanence"? (references welcome)

Sure it is. The same way it was legal to track and report on CIA "extraordinary rendition" flights using publicly available information.

What is not protected is actual interference or obstruction, and first amendment protections can be lost if the system’s design, stated purpose, or predictable use crosses from observation and reporting into intimidation or operational coordination that materially interferes or obstructs.

Given how these systems are already being used, and the likely intent behind building one, that's a real risk if you're not careful.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#126

Post by edm0nd »

cvhc wrote: post #105

Google discloses stats about government requests via FISA / National Security Letters: https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/us-national-... I was in one of these published NSLs issued by FBI a few years ago. I was notified by Google after the nondisclosure period.

What did you get the NSL for?

Did it result in you being raided?

Were you ever indicted or convicted of anything?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#127

Post by catlover76 »

sam345 wrote: post #97
legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

I'm not an expert in fourth amendment but I do know that assuming a subpoena without judicial oversight violates the fourth amendment is not correct. All the fourth amendment guarantees is unreasonable search and seizure. In some circumstances a judicial subpoena may be necessary and others not. An administrative subpoena implies that there has been a legal procedure and the administrative agencies are not exactly ru…

[dead]

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#129

Post by atoav »

legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

So what about the Amsterdam government handing over the records to the new Nazi government in the past century? Under the back then new laws this was legal and lead to the genocide of countless people who happened to have the wrong belief listed in that data.

Please never make the mistake to confuse something being legal for something being fair or ethical.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#130

Post by warkdarrior »

linkregister wrote: post #67
ceejayoz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They certainly don't allow ICE to enter a private abode. I'd just note that ICE is (falsely) claiming otherwise these days. https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-... "Federal immigration officers are asserting sweeping power to forcibly enter people’s homes without a judge’s warrant, according to an internal Immigration and Customs Enforcement memo obtained by The Associated Press, marking a s…

Indeed, law enforcement officers frequently lie about laws in order to accomplish their goals. This erodes public trust in law enforcement. As a society we should structure incentives such that agents of the government should be exposed to the externalities resulting from their actions.

The government (=Stephen Miller) said ICE agents have "federal immunity," so good luck with applying "externalities resulting from their actions."
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