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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#241

Post by direwolf20 »

dathinab wrote: post #85
Anonyneko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia switched 100% of its payments seamlessly, no reason for the EU not to do the same. Build up the network and tell banks to use that network even for transactions initiated with Visa/MC cards. At that point cards are still usable, but effectively a piece of identification plastic not directly controlled by Visa/MC anymore.

This isn't about the payment network. The EU already has their own payment network, too. It's about card payment and even if things ending up in your network they first going through visa. And it's about online payment (PayPal).

A lot of European online stores support asynchronous SEPA transfer. You complete your order, they issue a code and amount of money to send. You send the money with that reference code attached and they don't ship it until they get the money. It works for online order because you might be waiting a week anyway.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#242

Post by SomeUserName432 »

V__ wrote: post #137
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

> For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for This is a uniquely American viewpoint. In most of Europe you don't buy anything on credit ever.

I would never buy a plane ticket on debit.

Airbnb reservations I also tend to do on credit.

Anything related to company expenses I also do on credit and receive reimbursement prior to having to pay it myself.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#243

Post by RamblingCTO »

V__ wrote: post #137
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

> For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for This is a uniquely American viewpoint. In most of Europe you don't buy anything on credit ever.

It is not. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/private-debt-to-gd...

The widespread use with "buy now pay later" also counters your wildly baseless claim. Klarna, PayPal 30 days etc.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#244

Post by direwolf20 »

Anonyneko wrote: post #59
seydor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seamlessly It's not seamless if it includes a war, global isolation, exodus of all business and disconnection of the banks. This means they were left with no alternative, in which case, sure, it's 'seamless' to use the only alternative method. Europe will have a lot of friction with consumer habits and Visa will always be relevant for buying things from outside EU. These are all competing entities which hate anythi…

That's not how it worked, Russia prepared well in advance before the war (admittedly, after Crimea-related sanctions scared the hell out of them in 2014). When the 2022 sanctions dropped, transactions within Russian borders kept working seamlessly because the banks were already using the Mir network for those regardless of card types, i.e. you can still use your Russian-bank-issued Visa today for internal purchases.…

Nitpick: IBAN is a global identifier for a bank account. The transaction system where you enter an IBAN is called SEPA payment, or SEPA bank transfer, or something along those lines.

Just like I access hacker news by the Internet, not by IP address.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#245

Post by wiseowise »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #73
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

The problem here is interoperability. Now most merchants have to work with two companies, visa and mastercard. Want to accept russian MIR cards? Well, in some countries you're not allowed to, and in some, you must, since visa and mastercard don't work there. Now if you add a european company to the mix... whill their cards get accepted in south africa? What about in eg turkey? China? Will whatever indian alternative…

> Want to accept russian MIR cards?

Thankfully, this use case has been solved by Russians themselves.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#246

Post by direwolf20 »

maest wrote: post #168
MonkeyIsNull wrote: post #2

Nothing in France takes Discover, and my bank decided to go with Discover about 6 months ago. "Great" decision, thanks.

Just use wise or revolut.

"Just" get another bank account before travelling. Right...

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#247

Post by carlosjobim »

alistairSH wrote: post #220
carlosjobim wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit cards come with the same fraud protection as credit cards do, which is the most important benefit of Visa/MasterCard.

Just by their nature, that is inherently untrue. If your CC is stolen, you are not out all the cash in your account until the dispute is resolved. If your debit card is stolen, you lose that cash, making it more difficult to pay whatever other obligations you have that period.

If your debit card is stolen, your bank has to return all money that was used or withdrawn to you. Since it is unauthorized use of your funds. Same for credit cards of course. Such money is returned swiftly.

But the more concerning fraud is when you purchase something and don't receive what you should have received from the merchant. Whether it is due to outright fraud or not. In these cases you will also have your money reimbursed by your credit or debit card.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#248

Post by whynotmaybe »

clawlrbot wrote: post #205
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

[flagged]

What does Belgium's capital has to do with this? Do you imply Brussels = European Union?

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#249

Post by wiseowise »

Coeur wrote: post #165

Not sure Wero will succeed, but European country-specific mobile payment systems like Swish (Sweden), Vipps (rest of Scandinavia), Bizum (Spain), iDeal (Netherlands), Bluecode (Germany and Austria), Twint (Switzerland), BLIK (Poland) etc. are also working on interconnectivity under the EMPSA association. Combined they already have 110+ million users. Wero is like a monolith, while EMPSA is more like mobile phone roam…

Wero is iDeal.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#250

Post by direwolf20 »

Iolaum wrote: post #129

I m wondering why they are trying to build a competing product rather than a successor product? The digital euro could be a good candidate here and it also aspires to have cash-like privacy features. It's also mentioned in the article as separate and hopefully non overlapping product.

CBDC euro upends the entire economic structure of the entire union, which could be very good or very bad and definitely needs to be approached with extreme caution. But card networks used with ordinary banks are a known quantity.
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