Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#81

Post by hardolaf » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:19 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #50

hirako2000 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not 0.2% Visa: 1.3% to 2.3% Mastercard: 1.5% to 2.6% Mastercard: 2.3% to 3.5% Nothing precise as it depends on whether that's debit vs credit cards, and the type of card. Also volume related and what the bank may subsidize, or take on top.

Not in EU. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/fees-for-... > Specifically, the regulation: > caps interchange fees at 0.2% of the transaction value for consumer debit cards and at 0.3% for consumer credit cards;

Visa and MC were capped at 0.5% for the network before that change went in as well. But we have no idea what actual rates were beside the cap as they were negotiated with each card issuer based on their risk profile and customer base.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#82

Post by joevandyk » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:19 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #45

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

> No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. I don't know that the problem is sophisticated, but it's certainly complex [1]. It's a bit of both in terms of complexity and defending a moat, which all businesses do, including, and especially European ones. And companies like Visa, Mastercard, Ame…

This last summer, I couldn’t use my US-issued Visa or Mastercard credit card in most places in the Netherlands.

Had to use debit.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#83

Post by tiffanyh » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:19 PM UTC

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

Creating Acceptance is super difficult.

Hence why crypto hasn't taken off with merchants. Because who's going to pay for merchants to change their point-of-sale systems to accept a new payment method.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#84

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:19 PM UTC

mzajc wrote: post #56

Can I use it without installing their software on my smartphone? Question is rhetorical - of course not, and your smartphone also needs to pass Google's or Apple's remote attestation schemes. Good riddance. Is it really just PayPal left offering a sane online payment service? --- From https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599074240... : > It is not possible to use Wero via a web browser or on a computer.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#85

Post by dathinab » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:20 PM UTC

Anonyneko wrote: post #12

computomatic wrote: post #7

Most, if not all countries have their own domestic payment systems. This is about cross-border payments within the EU. “Breakup” seems a bit exaggerated considering the % of payment volume which might switch to the new system.

Russia switched 100% of its payments seamlessly, no reason for the EU not to do the same. Build up the network and tell banks to use that network even for transactions initiated with Visa/MC cards. At that point cards are still usable, but effectively a piece of identification plastic not directly controlled by Visa/MC anymore.

This isn't about the payment network. The EU already has their own payment network, too.

It's about card payment and even if things ending up in your network they first going through visa.

And it's about online payment (PayPal).

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#86

Post by compounding_it » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:20 PM UTC

hirako2000 wrote: post #24

compounding_it wrote: post #13

When India moved to UPI in the last few years something very interesting happened. The same devices that accept UPI (usually some android based POS) also accepted a plethora of cards. Previously merchants would be hesitant to take anything other than cash or charge 2% for visa/mastercard. But with wide adoption of digital payments they now just accept any payment with the goal that they don't want bad reviews and/or…

You mean that the 2% something visa/Mastercard demand, is far more digestible by merchants when it doesn't represent the majority of their revenue?

If previously 3 merchants had visa / Mastercard out of 10 who only accepted cash or cheques, then with UPI all 10 now accept UPI but 7 or 8 accept a universal POS which allows more type of payments. If previously 10% payments were via cards that costed them 2%, then now if sales are 2-3x because of UPI and online payments, letting go of that 2% for even 20% share of cards is fine because they captured a larger market with more sales. Not so long ago, India was a cash dominant economy so UPI actually opened that up. UPI actually helped Visa and Mastercard. Credit card spending has gone up a lot because of digitalization.

If in EU a local payment system captures the cash market, then the habit of using digital payments will actually also help Visa and Mastercard make more sale.

I currently don't have a credit card, but when I do, I find paying by a Visa/MasterCard much more preferable than UPI, simply because it's easier by tapping.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#87

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:20 PM UTC

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

If you gave any argument for why and how this is true, I might have believed it.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#88

Post by chihuahua » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:22 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #45

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

> No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. I don't know that the problem is sophisticated, but it's certainly complex [1]. It's a bit of both in terms of complexity and defending a moat, which all businesses do, including, and especially European ones. And companies like Visa, Mastercard, Ame…

> Today you can, at least as an American, just walk in to the subway in just about any country and tap to pay.

Is that really true? I remember wanting to buy a train ticket at Charles De Gaulle airport, and the machine only took French credit cards. That was around 2010, so I don't know if something changed.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#89

Post by Beretta_Vexee » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:22 PM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #5

So Wero is not a credit card, but something more like Venmo? How is it supposed to replace Visa and Mastercard?

Wero is just one of many systems available that allow individuals to make transfers easily and almost instantly. There is also Bizum in Iberia and Blik in Poland. These instant phone-to-phone transfers are very popular, especially among young people who rarely use cash. Wero itself was launched by large banking networks because they had no solution to compete with neo-banks such as Lydia, which was a pioneer in this type of service. France has its own payment network, Carte Bleue, which dates back to when the very first smart cards were introduced, but it is not European. The real problem is therefore not a lack of projects, banks or services, but a lack of interoperability, too many players and geographical fragmentation. Europe is not fast, but it has worked wonders with SEPA transfers. It needs to put in place a clear timetable imposing the interoperability of these services. The absence of plastic cards is absolutely not a problem, just look at WeChat, Alipay, etc.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#90

Post by laksjhdlka » Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 4:22 PM UTC

close04 wrote: post #69

unmole wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India built RuPay, China built UnionPay. There's no reason why Europe can't do the same.

The most obvious difference being that unlike China or India, Europe (or the EU) is not a single country. This doesn't make things impossible but certainly complicates them.

Exactly, now that the internet is ubiquitous, none of the problems with replacing credit card companies like VISA are really technical. They are regulatory, they are political, they are social.