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Luce: First Electric Ferrari

ferrari.com

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Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#101

Post by carefree-bob »

anonym00se1 wrote: post #3

In case anyone was wondering what the Apple Car would have looked like inside, it would have been roughly this. As an Apple Car™ it makes sense, but as a Ferrari it's incredibly soulless and oversimplified. This Ive design aesthetic (Dieter Rams' aesthetic really) is fine on consumer electronics where you want the device to disappear and give way to the display, but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari esp…

EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to save on metal there. Every extra kilogram reduces range. Solid things are made hollow. Metal is replaced by plastic. Fabrics are thinner or replaced with lighter-weight engineered materials. Lots of things are removed. Physical buttons gone, flourishes gone, handles gone. Seats are made thinner and with less material. See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter?

All of that and still they come up with a 2300 kg compact two row SUV.

So, if you are going to be redesigning everything anyway to try to get rid of as much weight as possible, why not hire a designer known for sparse, minimalistic, clean design? It makes sense. It may not be what Ferrari buyers want, but you can't really blame Ferrari for giving it a try. We'll see how well it sells.

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#103

Post by olyjohn »

tiffanyh wrote: post #29

Porsche is the only car company that has nailed interior EV design - IMO. Their interiors look high-end, functional and not just a minimalist big computer screen. https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g46528574/2024-porsche-m...

What do you mean interior EV design? Why does it have to differ from an EV to a gas powered car? You might have some different gauges, a control or two that is different, but other than that, why does an EV have to look a certain way?

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#104

Post by lateforwork »

throw03172019 wrote: post #19

Is there a market for a $400,000+ electric sports car? For me, the excitement of a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc is the engine and the sound.

> the engine and the sound

At some point you have to accept a technology transition. Otherwise you sound like someone arguing against motor cars because the real thrill of transportation was the horse’s clippity-clop.

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#105

Post by carefree-bob »

Retric wrote: post #98
anonym00se1 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything will undoubtedly feel nice/premium as a result of being metal and glass, but you spend more time looking at the entire interior than touching every part of it, so appearance is important.

Car interiors are static so your brain very quickly ignores it while driving or after owning the car for a while. The interface / ergonomics on the other hand end up way more important than anything else when it comes to personal enjoyment of the interior.

For things like volume, A/C, adjusting mirrors and seats, I really, really want physical buttons. Not sure what I will do after my old Volvo dies, maybe the touchscreen mania will have gone away by then and physical buttons will be back. I can't imagine myself touching a screen while driving, I don't even know how I would be able to do that.

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#106

Post by carefree-bob »

aetherspawn wrote: post #59
tiffanyh wrote: post #29

Porsche is the only car company that has nailed interior EV design - IMO. Their interiors look high-end, functional and not just a minimalist big computer screen. https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g46528574/2024-porsche-m...

Lexus CT200h is one of the best interiors ever designed. The design language was tactile: every single button or control had a different action or feel. https://cdn-fastly.thetruthaboutcars.com/media/2022/07/20/94... There’s a roughly 7 inch above the vents that flips up whenever the car is off, but using the screen is optional. The screen is up near the road, and it’s very safe to use. There’s a small joystick to mo…

This looks gorgeous.

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#108

Post by carefree-bob »

lateforwork wrote: post #104
throw03172019 wrote: post #19

Is there a market for a $400,000+ electric sports car? For me, the excitement of a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc is the engine and the sound.

> the engine and the sound At some point you have to accept a technology transition. Otherwise you sound like someone arguing against motor cars because the real thrill of transportation was the horse’s clippity-clop.

You don't need to accept anything when it comes to a $400,000 sports car. Ferrari drivers put like 1600 miles a year on their car, it's not even transportation, it's a weekend toy. They can just buy other toys, like helicopter rides, or whatever other thing will come along that will give them the thrill they want.

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#109

Post by carefree-bob »

stackghost wrote: post #6

The tablet interface looks cheap and low-budget. When you spend that much on a car you don't want the interior to look like a Model S.

I've wondered why they don't integrate the tablet directly into the dash or windshield. It does seem clunky to have a big ipad screwed to your dash. And I think it would also save on weight.

Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari

#110

Post by MindSpunk »

benlivengood wrote: post #94
MindSpunk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acceleration is about the only selling point of a sports EV. They're so ungodly heavy because of the batteries that they handle like barges. They need giant tyres and so much ESC and software control because these things weigh almost 2000kg or more. You can try and work around it but there's only so much that can be done to make 2000kg take a corner. Looking at where sports cars will be in 10 years with ICEs being re…

The McMurtry Spéirling is under 1000kg. Battery technology will only improve and so I expect to see under-1500kg sport EVs generally available eventually. Under 1000kg for a reasonable price probably means building your own electrified exocar.

The McMurtry is a race car so it's not surprising it's that light. However it still pays a price compared to its contemporaries (go look at the weights of various LMP1 or LMP2 cars, even old cars like the Mazda 787B was ~850kg iirc). The only number I've found so far is "under 1000kg" so I assume it's probably quite close to that 1000kg number.

The weight of the batteries isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I expect car makers will prioritize range. I think the engineering to make an EV truly light like an old Integra Type R (1100kg) will be obscenely expensive and sacrifice so much on practicality it just won't be a viable product as a road car.

The car would be so compromised to be that light nobody will make the car, at least at an affordable price. You'll end up with a limited range, limited power, uncomfortable car for a price way out of line with what you're getting.

I think you could make a ~150kw-180kw EV pretty light, but considering the ongoing power pissing contest in modern cars I'm not sure how well it would market test.

So I expect the market will stick to heavy cars with big power because it's easier to build and easier to sell.

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