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Facebook, I want my friends back

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Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#111

Post by tedunangst »

MartinCron wrote: post #89
tedunangst wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find better selection, better prices, and better advice on the Internet. Also, Jeff bezos doesn't give me the "I hate young people" stink eye when I browse his store. The local hardware store opens at 9:00am. Or 9:30. Or whenever pop finishes his breakfast. Because whatever I have planned for the day is not nearly as urgent as his crossword puzzle. That shit doesn't happen at Home Depot.

Home Depot (Starbucks, Applebee's, whatever) set both a floor and a ceiling for expectation of quality. For every crappy mom and pop hardware store that is poorly run, there is also an independent hardware store with kind and helpful people. When I am traveling, I will go to Starbucks, but in my city, I know where the exceptional coffee is. edit: s/privacy/quality

Privacy? What?

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#112

Post by joe_the_user »

Serious bait-and-switch in the title.

He want control of his fans, his like-ees. Not his (Facebook) "friends". Most of us know that is not a bug but a feature.

Now the problem that Facebook makes it to share one's email address with one's own real Facebook friends is annoying and something to complain about. But trying to leverage that to complain about not being able to push your feed is problematic. This is exactly what use Facebook for. An experience where you aren't bombarded with everyone's BS.

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#113

Post by veb »

I don't use promoted posts, and yet I still manage to get this: http://cl.ly/image/2t0b340Y3h2S

I only have 300,000 likes too. ;-) Basically, the trick is engagement. Give the audience what they want, when they want. Timing matters, pictures matter. Do it right, and you don't need to pay anything.

P.S. Making money from advertisements, pfft how ancient and boring! shamelessplug use Teespring instead.

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#114

Post by quarterto »

macspoofing wrote: post #95
kscaldef wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I object to Facebook making this decision for me. I _didn't_ add too many friends. My newsfeed _wasn't_ overrun. Yeah, I had to hide a few annoying Apps, but no big deal. And then, one day, I stopped seeing posts from lots of people, including many of the people I most wanted to see posts from. It took a while before I even realized this was happening. Then I slowly had to go through and fix the settings for people t…

>I object to Facebook making this decision for me. That's a funny way to characterize a SaaS service. They make service decisions for you all the time. Don't like Timeline? Too bad. Want the 2007 version instead of the current one? Too bad.

> a SaaS service

A Software as a Service service?

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#115

Post by lotharbot »

natrius wrote: post #108
lotharbot wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook's data doesn't tell them how close you actually are to people, only how often you like/share/respond to their content -- and how many other people like their stuff. The guy who spams 30 lame political memes per day, who I might argue with a couple times a week, gets treated like my best friend. My mom, who posts maybe once a month and has a limited friends list, gets hidden away in the deep recesses of the s…

Has that actually happened to you? I doubt it, especially if you've indicated she's your mother on Facebook. People who post rarely would show up more often when they do post in any reasonable weighting scheme. "Close" was a loaded word to use. Facebook knows how often you interact with someone's content, how often you view someone's profile, how closely connected your social network is with someone, etc. Facebook's…

> "Has that actually happened to you?"

It has. Yes, all of the relevant family connections are listed (my parents, my 7 siblings, and myself form a complete graph[0].) It's not just my mother, either -- a few wedding photos of a family member, posted today, didn't show up in my main news feed (which I always set to chronological rather than top stories, and which I check several times per day.) The photos should have been at the "n hours ago" point in the list, but I only discovered them because I was searching for examples for this thread. (I thought the missing post from my mom was a better example, though.)

FaceBook's algorithm seems to work for some people, particularly those with particular usage patterns. But its failure modes can be quite obnoxious. They provide some tools that allow some degree of fine-tuning, but even having manually set the "show me everything" options, certain content falls through the cracks.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_graph

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#116

Post by gergles »

pdonis wrote: post #60
Nowyouknow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to realize, previously, when a page was "liked" that was equivalent to WANTING to see updates from this Facebook page. That simple like was a 2-way contract, you're interested in us, when we post, you will be aware of it. Now the "liker" could be missing out on items they find important, and the fan page is effectively impotent in reaching that fan unless they pay to promote the post. It really is a bait and…

I understand why people are frustrated, but you are failing to identify the root cause of their frustation: they were getting something of value (PR for businesses, sharing of personal information, etc.) from Facebook for free, and now they're complaining because Facebook wants to charge them for it. Guess what: Facebook owns their site, their servers, and their PR mechanisms. It's up to them what things to charge fo…

Without me (and people like me), they don't have a site. So, yeah, I'm their customer. I'm what makes their site a viable business. I'm about as from "just a user" as you can get.

On a ranting note, this attitude is incredibly offensive to the users of social networks and SaaS providers; and I'm stunned to see it met with so much traction on a community of startup owners. If your startup is this cavalier towards customers, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#117

Post by tjr »

quarterto wrote: post #114
macspoofing wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I object to Facebook making this decision for me. That's a funny way to characterize a SaaS service. They make service decisions for you all the time. Don't like Timeline? Too bad. Want the 2007 version instead of the current one? Too bad.

> a SaaS service A Software as a Service service?

Sounds like a perfectly Y-Combinatorish sort of thing.

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#118

Post by joezydeco »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #45
gbaygon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook users aren't its customers, facebook users are its products. Better think again.

This "product" meme is inaccurate and misleading. You are the product in the same way that Lebron James is the NBA's product, the same way that a top partner at Goldman Sacs is the product, the same way that Justin Bieber is the product, and the same way that you yourself is the product every time you apply for a job interview or raise funds. Being the "product" gives you a great position in your relationship with th…

The NBA takes in ticket money and pays Lebron James a salary. Goldman Sachs takes in commissions and fees and pays their top partners a salary and bonuses. Justin Bieber's record company sells records and Justin Bieber gets a royalty check.

What is Facebook paying me for the content they are selling advertising against? Is the ability to access their service my compensation?

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#119

Post by alexkus »

padobson wrote: post #74

User: Oh, hello Facebook. Can you help me find out what my friends are doing? Facebook: Oh, definitely. Just have a look at your NewsFeed and see what they're doing. User: Wait, I've got 2000 friends. Why am I only getting a NewsFeed post twice an hour? Facebook: Because we decided that's the information that you're most likely to want. User: But what if I want to know what everyone's doing at any specific moment? Tw…

For now yes, but Twitter could do exactly the same thing at some point in the future; they need money too. Whatever rug you get comfy on can be pulled from under you at a moment's notice.

IPOs/monetization/capitalism has far more power than the user-base.

I'd love to see a bunch of not-for-profit[1] startups to come along to replace the likes of paypal/twitter/stripe/etc.

1. For example, supported by just enough injected advertising to break even, or fees set at a percentage that just covers costs rather than going after piles of profit.

Re: Facebook, I want my friends back

#120

Post by incongruity »

pdonis wrote: post #60
Nowyouknow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to realize, previously, when a page was "liked" that was equivalent to WANTING to see updates from this Facebook page. That simple like was a 2-way contract, you're interested in us, when we post, you will be aware of it. Now the "liker" could be missing out on items they find important, and the fan page is effectively impotent in reaching that fan unless they pay to promote the post. It really is a bait and…

I understand why people are frustrated, but you are failing to identify the root cause of their frustation: they were getting something of value (PR for businesses, sharing of personal information, etc.) from Facebook for free, and now they're complaining because Facebook wants to charge them for it. Guess what: Facebook owns their site, their servers, and their PR mechanisms. It's up to them what things to charge fo…

Bait and switch is absolutely still accurate, IMHO, but it doesn't matter what you call it, the effect is real.

First, let's unpack your justification a little – you actually offer two claims: 1) You aren't Facebook's customer. You're just a user. and 2) You agreed to let them change their services without your consent when you signed up for your account.

To the first: most of us may not be their customers, but there's clearly an exchange of value going in both directions. I give them my attention, demographic information, etc. which is valuable to them as it then allows them to charge their customers for access to me and my info, in all the various ways. In return, I get access to FB and all that goes with it... but I'm not just a user I'm a supplier. As such, there's still an agreement, both formal and informal, going on here.

The formal agreement is the one you allude to in your second claim – the TOS that most of us don't remember even agreeing to. That matters a lot from a legal standpoint. They're clear to do whatever they want, legally, within reason. (I'm not trying to go deep on this sub-point).

But much more important is the informal agreement between FB and their suppliers (err "users"). That's the stuff that brand equity is made up of – and the brand promise, the value to users is the ability to keep up with their friends and know that their friends can keep up with them.

FB has begun to renege on that promise – and as such, they'll lose brand equity and the value in the eyes of their users.

Call it a bait and switch or don't, but the effect is still the same.

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