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My experience with WPEngine

chester.id.au

191–200 of 250 posts

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#191
post #97

Ben, one of the co-founders of WP Engine here and as someone wrote below[1] - yes, this isn't the most wonderful thing to wake up to in the morning and sort out while still in your PJ's ;) Ok, so first and foremost I am incredibly sorry, Jacques, for the experience you had. I can say with confidence that your experience with WP Engine is out of the ordinary, but no excuses. I’m writing this as a way of owning up to m…

While you're looking into this, you really need to jump on your cofounder Jason, who is currently making a complete ass of himself (and WPEngine) with bullshit like this: https://twitter.com/asmartbear/status/261103840231825409 https://twitter.com/asmartbear/status/261103530855784448 Ben, I really appreciate you taking the time to post this here and demonstrate that you take this seriously, but your cofounder is curr…

Let's give the man the benefit of the doubt, he is obviously sorry about this and said it was "an unfortunate mistake where I didn't know what I was responding too" (see links), let's not crucify someone on a field trial, none of us want to be in his shoes.

I'm neither justifying nor criticizing what he said, just let's be careful not to burn someone or something based on one mistake that we all can one day find repeating.

His clarification tweets:

https://twitter.com/asmartbear/status/261189038696960002

https://twitter.com/asmartbear/status/261188913991913472

I'm sure he'll be more careful on public tweets next time, but I think jumping to conclusions on his company etc is going too far.

He made a mistake, obviously seems he learned from it, and we all learned a nice little lesson in customer service, public relations and social web dynamics.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#192
post #67
post #7

I've been hosting a couple WordPress sites on PHPFog ( http://phpfog.com ) as well as DreamHost. For some reason DreamHost is faster, but the PHPFog UI is much nicer. Both have great support (DreamHosts' is 24/7 if I'm not mistaken) and relatively cheap. That being said, once you have the sort of requirements that the original poster seems to have, I don't know if any of those companies would be suitable…

I wanted to use PHPFog for an ExpressionEngine site but deploys seemed to take an unreasonably long time. Their pseudo-git (CLI task `pf`) is also kind of silly. If you're not going to be doing a lot of dev work and making a lot of commits, I'd recommend.

You can actually use git natively for PHP Fog. The CLI tool is just an option to make things easier for some users.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then compare it to Page.ly. Same basic proposition: fully managed Wordpress. They cost less. And their service roflstomps WPEngine's.

Page.ly was awful. When my sites weren't down due to botched infrastructure upgrades, users would get locked out of the admin interface by "FireHost Website Protection" (FireHost was/is their underlying hosting provider). The same sad cycle repeated multiple times: 1. Email FireHost with the event IDs and a request to unblock. 2. FireHost doesn't reply for 24 hours, or if they do it's with "we can't find that event i…

Hey D,

Sorry we handled that poorly. At the time Firehost was having some significant issues with their firewall policies. We do constantly walk that line between enforcing security at the edge and annoying customers that may run into WAF blocks. It's a delicate balance.

The problems you had have since been resolved and pagely is running under a new firewall (and new blades) which are much more reliable.

In addressing your frustration my comment of 'we're on the same team' was to demonstrate that we were all working towards a solution for you. As professionals dealing with other professionals we aim to acknowledge and address the problem while steering the conversation to a positive outcome. If our customer views us as an adversary it makes the process more challenging for all involved. By re-framing the conversation as we are all in this together, all working towards a solution, we feel it is more likely the positive solution will be found and implemented sooner. My comment was a gentle reminder to that effect: acknowledging the issue, and we are working with you, and with our partners to remedy it.

Thank you for your past business, and we hope one day to earn it again. - joshua strebel, founder pagely.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#194
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What doesn't make sense about it? I can see a lot of scenarios where you start with a CMS because it does a good job of doing what you need. Why reinvent the wheel? Scaling issues is going to occur in all code, even code you write and know inside and out. It just means you become entirely responsible for debugging and re-architecting to improve its performance. @Drupal specific comment, you could easily throw nginx a…

Valid point. What I keyed on in the article is that it is a complex install, and that tells me that maybe his CMS is working against him. In those cases I like to remove the impediment and simplify the data model (which should simplify the code).

I can't comment on the specifics but he said it was something default in the comments table and modules I think. For a big project like wordpress, I would try to understand why a certain decision was made. Try to understand the consequences of that decision vis-a-vis how I would want/expect it to work.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, any WP hosting company is going to run into issues with non-standard installs, and they're not going to be able to accommodate any setup. If you have a customised WP install, it might not work on this sort of provider, they're optimising for speed, not dealing with, and they probably don't want the headache of trying to support any plugins or modifications that you might bring to WP. It would make sense f…

Multisite has been part of the base Wordpress install since 3.0.

Just curious, why do some pages sort 189k db rows?

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#196
post #192
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to use PHPFog for an ExpressionEngine site but deploys seemed to take an unreasonably long time. Their pseudo-git (CLI task `pf`) is also kind of silly. If you're not going to be doing a lot of dev work and making a lot of commits, I'd recommend.

You can actually use git natively for PHP Fog. The CLI tool is just an option to make things easier for some users.

Right, that's what I went to. I figured I'd give their tool a whirl but it's just an obfuscation of git. I guess it might be easier for some but it just gave me error after error.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#197
post #101

For all who are thinking about moving to WPEngine: Your staging server does not use WPE's caching technology, which your production server will use. WPE will not give you details on how their secret-sauce caching works. This means that things that work on staging will break on production. WPE also refuse to turn off their caching on production, but also refuse to turn ON their caching on your staging server. This mea…

So we don't apply the caching stuff to the staging server because the purpose of the staging server is to stage content and test new plugins and themes. We invented this feature in response to bloggers and site owners who wanted to be able to test a new plugin before adding it to the live/production version of their site. We're also the only managed WP platform to offer such a feature as standard with all accounts. I…

The solution with Heroku is to create a separate app and use that. The app will be identical except for having fewer (and optionally different) resources. Because it's billed hourly, it doesn't cost too much to run it at full power for a short while to answer a question, before scaling it back down. The reason you needed to "invent" this feature is because your environment isn't as self-service as it could be.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#198
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN cracks me up sometimes. Above-and-beyond customer service is now "bad strategy"? Hah. :-)

Yes, it is. Because it creates bad assumptions. Now, you'll have a ton of noobs assuming that you do that and that for free because you already did it.

There's a section in Guy Kawasaki's Rules for Revolutionaries which talks about exactly this. Rules is still my go-to text for general business management advice. I'll quote the relevant parts here.

"Get Over the Paranoia: The story may be apocryphal, but Nordstrom supposedly allowed a customer to return an automobile tire that he insisted he bought at the store. Of course, Nordstrom doesn't sell tires.

"The paranoid would ask, ``But what if everyone who owns a car returned tires to Nordstrom? Nordstrom would go broke!'' But people won't (and don't), and Nordstrom will never be in danger of going bankrupt for accepting returns of goods it doesn't sell.

"Managers are afraid to implement customer-pleasing, revolution-catalyzing policies because they are afraid that too many people will take advantage of these policies, and they'll end up with the equivalent of a store full of tires."

The entire section goes on to talk about employee empowerment, allocentralism (putting yourself into your customer's shoes), examples from other businesses that either do this or don't, and so on; the relevant summary part from the text would probably be, "However, if your competition is asking people to do something suboptimal, then it's creating an opportunity for you."

So, straight up: it's certainly possible to run a business the way that you're describing. In fact, I'd guess that that's how most businesses run: they do as little as possible to make their money and meet -- but not exceed -- their customers' expectations. So you're not wrong as far as that goes.

But you are wrong to assume that they'll have "a ton of noobs" if they treat one particular customer really well. And, you're equally wrong to assume that having "a ton of noobs" is a bad problem to have; from another part of the same section of the book: "For example, a Whirlpool employee taped a news program's interview with Gail, a woman with several children and a full-time job. Whirlpool employees were challenged to provide appliances that would ``take care of Gail.'' In response, they redesigned the stovetop of Whirlpool's CleanTop to be completely flat, without grease traps or dirt-collecting crevices, and they created the Quiet Partner dishwasher, so the noise of the dishwasher wouldn't distract Gail. Viewing chores through Gail's eyes has helped Whirlpool introduce significant product enhancements."

Having "a ton of noobs" would mean a ton of new customers that are paying you money to show you what is wrong with your product or service. They are a great resource to have, if you take advantage of them. If you can identify one problem that 35% of "a ton of noobs" all have in common, and if you can automate the solution to that problem (or make it significantly easier to solve), then you have just achieved differentiation in a crowded market.

Yes, it can be painful in the short term. You might have to hire some more help -- and you might have to streamline some of your other internal process, like your ticket system, which will also pay dividends in the future.

Avoiding pathological customers is certainly good advice for freelancers, consultants, and really small shops. However, it is not necessarily the only good business strategy.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons that your site experienced problems was that there were some aspects of the site development that simply didn't scale. Like any scale-orientated PaaS, we can provide the infrastructure to enable you to scale but your code needs to work in partnership to fully achieve that. As Sean, my head SysAdmin wrote on a ticket to you, some of your pages were performing a sort on 188590 rows in memory each tim…

"From a customer service perspective, this comment leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. You guys say right on your home page that you're "infinitely scalable." [...] The (strong) implication being that any WordPress configuration will perform better on WPEngine than on an alternative hosting platform." I agree with your general point that, from the standpoint of the entrepreneur, "the customer is always right" shou…

On the other hand, in the paas industry, it should be axiomatic, i.e., understood by all competent parties, that horizontal scaling (the "infinitely scalable" bit) manifestly will NOT address problematic architectures, n+1 queries, full table scans, poorly/non-indexed schemas, etc.

The problem with this is that the original post doesn't say "I have a site that was crashing and locking up all the time, so I took it to WPEngine." It says "I have a site that was running fine on a VPS at Linode, but I got tired of the hassle of managing the VPS, so I took it to WPEngine."

The original post is written by the complainant, of course, so it's possible it's subjective or slanted. But if it's correct on this point, I don't think it's unreasonable for a competent party -- in this case, a person with a WordPress site that runs acceptably on a commodity VPS -- to expect that it would run acceptably on WPEngine as well. Presumably performance killers like the ones you cite would be just as bad on the VPS -- if not worse, since it's unlikely that a VPS' operator will be able to tune MySQL, PHP, Apache, etc. to the degree that an expert at a place like WPEngine would.

Re: My experience with WPEngine

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what you think is disgusting about these tweets, they express a personal opinion, here they are in case they are deleted: @billmcneely yup, there's always someone bitter and hateful. Sometimes they even have a point, but choose to make it in a destructive way. @P_Doubleya @gozmike thanks guys. That's also why I ignore HN. There's always haters. That's not ridiculing customers, and it's not disgusting or d…

Why do people always insist on being the devil's advocate on HN? Suppose you went to the supermarket to try and return some spoiled food, and they deny you so you give them a bad Yelp review. A harsh one even. Would you consider it reasonable to be the subject of the manager's tweet, or open letter or any other kind of public message calling you someone who cannot be pleased, who has an agenda against the store, is d…

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