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Quartz crystals

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Re: Quartz crystals

#11

Post by kurthr »

Isamu wrote: post #8
speakspokespok wrote: post #7

With a crystal of the right dimensions and correct input voltage could one feel the crystal vibrating?

You mean could you get it down to a low enough frequency? Hmm I guess you can get down into audio frequency but maybe the amplitude will be tiny, you probably want a piezo mechanism that will give you more of a rumble.

As mentioned in the article there are a lot of common watch crystals that oscillate at 32.768 kHz, but they are tuning fork crystals rather than bulk mode (or modern SAW), which have much higher frequencies. It would be challenging to lower the frequency of these, but perhaps you could evaporate Au or W onto the tips and reseal them to get into the audible frequencies. Much easier would be to get two crystals which beat against each other in the audio range. Even a couple of 6MHz crystals 100ppm off would be ~6kHz (temp sensitive), and you would need some driving circuits, but you might be able to hear the beat by driving an electret microphone or a really tiny tweeter coil speaker (probably need an amp though).

It's much easier to build/buy electrical rather than mechanical LC components to hit audio frequencies ~100Hz-10kHz.

Re: Quartz crystals

#12

Post by hilbert42 »

Isamu wrote: post #8
speakspokespok wrote: post #7

With a crystal of the right dimensions and correct input voltage could one feel the crystal vibrating?

You mean could you get it down to a low enough frequency? Hmm I guess you can get down into audio frequency but maybe the amplitude will be tiny, you probably want a piezo mechanism that will give you more of a rumble.

You can get quartz to resonate down to upper audio frequencies with certain crystal cuts and manufacturing techniques but it's difficult. Typically, the lowest frequency in common use is with its use in watches with a frequency of 32,768Hz (that's about the lower limit where manufacturing and frequency combine to make a useful product).

For electronic circuits such as frequency reference markers where frequency stability is important the lowest practical frequency is 100kHz with 1Mhz preferred, and where frequency tolerances are tight 5 and 10MHz are much preferred with operation in a temperature stabilized oven to minimize frequency drift.

The most frequency-stable crystal cuts are at those frequencies, as frequencies increase (say >10MHz to 100MHz), which at the highest frequencies require the crystal to operate in overtone mode, frequency stability again tends to decrease.

Re: Quartz crystals

#13

Post by tomcam »

> according to [2] a train crashed in 1972 due to a badly designed crystal oscillator spontaneously jumping to its third overtone

New fear unlocked

Re: Quartz crystals

#14

Post by sbinnee »

Believe or not, when I explained to many non techies how quartz watches work and how any computers’ hardware clocks work in the same principle, they were all surprised how elegant and how efficient the mechanism is. I was also impressed when I first learned about it. True science and engineering beauty.

Re: Quartz crystals

#15

Post by Animats »

Isamu wrote: post #8
speakspokespok wrote: post #7

With a crystal of the right dimensions and correct input voltage could one feel the crystal vibrating?

You mean could you get it down to a low enough frequency? Hmm I guess you can get down into audio frequency but maybe the amplitude will be tiny, you probably want a piezo mechanism that will give you more of a rumble.

There are piezo buzzers and beepers, of course.

Re: Quartz crystals

#17

Post by gilleain »

hilbert42 wrote: post #9

The article is a nostalgic reminder of when I was first interested in electronics and got interested in quartz resonators for projects. Grinding down old war surplus FT243-style crystals and other types so as to resonate at frequencies I needed was a common practice with hobbyists back then. I used many similar techniques to the same end of removing quartz which raised its frequency. Grinding materials included abras…

> BTW, the mentioning of HF will likely horrify chem-phobic readers I would not say I am chem-phobic, but yes indeed that stood out. HF is nasty stuff, and yes requires some care I suspect.

The other details are fascinating, though - the intersection of mechanical, crystallographic, and RF (?) properties of a crystal that you can adjust through abrasives and selection of the cut.

Re: Quartz crystals

#18

Post by vincnetas »

hilbert42 wrote: post #9

The article is a nostalgic reminder of when I was first interested in electronics and got interested in quartz resonators for projects. Grinding down old war surplus FT243-style crystals and other types so as to resonate at frequencies I needed was a common practice with hobbyists back then. I used many similar techniques to the same end of removing quartz which raised its frequency. Grinding materials included abras…

So is this art of selecting right crystals is applicable for synthetic crystals also or these can be grown perfect each time to specifications?

Re: Quartz crystals

#19

Post by jacquesm »

tomcam wrote: post #13

> according to [2] a train crashed in 1972 due to a badly designed crystal oscillator spontaneously jumping to its third overtone New fear unlocked

More interesting: amazing sleuthing to figure out that that was the root cause.
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