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We mourn our craft

nolanlawson.com

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Re: We mourn our craft

#351

Post by guytv »

stack_framer wrote: post #227

> wait six months. I mourn having to repeatedly hear this never-quite-true promise that an amazing future of perfect code from agentic whatevers will come to fruition, and it's still just six months away. "Oh yes, we know we said it was coming six, twelve, and eighteen months ago, but this time we pinky swear it's just six months away!" I remember when I first got access to the internet. It was revolutionary. I wante…

you’re probably not doing it right.

I’ve been programming since 1984.

OP basically described my current role with scary precision.

I mostly review the AI’s code, fix the plan before it starts, and nudge it in the right direction.

Each new model version needs less nudging — planning, architecture, security, all of it.

There’s an upside.

There’s something addictive about thinking of something and having it materialize within an hour.

I can run faster and farther than I ever could before.

I’ve rediscovered that I just like building things — imagining them and watching them come alive — even if I’m not laying every brick myself anymore.

But the pace is brutal.

My gut tells me this window, where we still get to meaningfully participate in the process, is short.

That part is sad, and I do mourn it quite a bit.

If you think this is just hype, you’re doing it wrong.

Re: We mourn our craft

#352

Post by Lerc »

stack_framer wrote: post #227

> wait six months. I mourn having to repeatedly hear this never-quite-true promise that an amazing future of perfect code from agentic whatevers will come to fruition, and it's still just six months away. "Oh yes, we know we said it was coming six, twelve, and eighteen months ago, but this time we pinky swear it's just six months away!" I remember when I first got access to the internet. It was revolutionary. I wante…

Can you point to the most optimistic six month projections that you have seen?

I have encountered a lot of people say it will be better in six months, and every six months It has been.

I have also seen a few predictions that say 'in a year or two they will be able to do a job completely. I am sceptical, but I would say such claims are rare. Dario Amodei has been about the only prominent voice that I have encountered that puts such abilities on a very short timeframe, and he still points to more than a year.

The practical use of AI has certainly increased a lot in the last six months.

So I guess what I'm asking is more specifics on what you feel was claimed, by whom, and how much did they fall short?

Without that supporting evidence you could just be being annoyed by the failure of claims that exist in your imagination.

Re: We mourn our craft

#353

Post by brandensilva »

I'm probably a minority, but I've never loved dealing with syntax. The code itself always felt like a hindrance to me that reminded me that my brain was slowed down by my fingers. I get it though, it was tactical and it completed the loop. It was essential for learning I felt like despite eventually getting to a point where it slows you down the more senior you get.

AI has a ways to go before it's senior level if it ever reaches that level, but I do feel bad for juniors that survive this who never will have the opportunity to sculpt code by hand.

Re: We mourn our craft

#355

Post by sally_glance »

terminalbraid wrote: post #131
stevejb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this like saying that if better woodworking tools come out, and you like woodworking, that woodworking somehow 'isn't your craft'. They said that their craft is about making things. There are woodworkers on YouTube who use CNC, some who use the best Festool stuff but nothing that moves on its own, and some who only use handtools. Where is the line at which woodworking is not their craft?

The better analogy is you're now a shop manager or even just QA. You don't need to touch, look at, or think about the production process past asking for something and seeing if the final result fits the bill. You get something that looks like a cabinet because you asked for a cabinet. I don't consider that "woodworking craft", power tools or otherwise.

I'm pretty sure at least the better woodworking shop managers and QA people all have experience with woodworking and probably would also consider this their craft if asked.

Re: We mourn our craft

#356

Post by sgsjchs »

lp4v4n wrote: post #11

People have to stop talking like LLMs solved programming. If you're someone with a background in Computer Science, you should know that we have formal languages for a reason, and that natural language is not as precise as a programming language. But anyway we're peek AI hype, hitting the top on HN is worth more than a reasonable take, reasonableness doesn't sell after all. So here we're seeing yet another text about…

Does it really matter that English is not as precise if the agent can make a consistent and plausible guess what my intention is? And when it occasionally guesses incorrectly, I can always clarify.

Re: We mourn our craft

#357

Post by [deleted] »

guytv wrote: post #351
stack_framer wrote: post #227

> wait six months. I mourn having to repeatedly hear this never-quite-true promise that an amazing future of perfect code from agentic whatevers will come to fruition, and it's still just six months away. "Oh yes, we know we said it was coming six, twelve, and eighteen months ago, but this time we pinky swear it's just six months away!" I remember when I first got access to the internet. It was revolutionary. I wante…

you’re probably not doing it right. I’ve been programming since 1984. OP basically described my current role with scary precision. I mostly review the AI’s code, fix the plan before it starts, and nudge it in the right direction. Each new model version needs less nudging — planning, architecture, security, all of it. There’s an upside. There’s something addictive about thinking of something and having it materialize…

[deleted]

Re: We mourn our craft

#358

Post by light_hue_1 »

kelnos wrote: post #297
light_hue_1 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just gatekeeping. It was and is my craft. I've been doing it since grade 5. Like 30 years now. Writing tight assembly for robot controllers all the way to AI on MRI machines to security for the DoD and now the biggest AI on the planet. But my craft was not typing. It's coding. If you're typist you're going to mourn the printer. But if you're a writer you're going to see how the improves your life.

A big component to coding is typing. If you aren't doing the typing, then, unless you are dictating code to someone else to mechanically, verbatim type out for you, you are not coding. I do believe directing an LLM to write code, and then reviewing and refining that code with the LLM, is a skill that has value -- a ton of value! -- but I do not think it is coding. It's more like super-technical product management, or…

Assembling code doesn't require typing. Linking doesn't require typing.

Even though once upon a time both did.

Claiming that this isn't coding is as absurd as saying that coding is only what you do when you hook up the wires between some vacuum tubes.

The LLM is a very smart compiler. That's all.

Some people want to sit and write assembly. Good for them. But asserting that unless I assemble my own code I'm not a coder is just silly.

Re: We mourn our craft

#359

Post by [deleted] »

esafak wrote: post #340
stack_framer wrote: post #227

> wait six months. I mourn having to repeatedly hear this never-quite-true promise that an amazing future of perfect code from agentic whatevers will come to fruition, and it's still just six months away. "Oh yes, we know we said it was coming six, twelve, and eighteen months ago, but this time we pinky swear it's just six months away!" I remember when I first got access to the internet. It was revolutionary. I wante…

If you've only experienced MS Copilot I invite you to try the latest models through Codex (free deals ongoing), Claude Code, or Opencode. You may be surprised, for better or worse. What kind of software do you do?

[deleted]
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