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Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

blog.alaindichiappari.dev

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Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#131

Post by enraged_camel »

Ocha wrote: post #100
jatora wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont really understand how this is possible. I've built some very large applications, and even a full LLM data curation,tokenizer, pretrain, posttrain SFT/DPO pipeline with LLM's and it most certainly took far less time than if i had done it manually. Sure it isnt all optimal...but it most certainly isnt subpar, and it is fully functional

So you skipped the code review and just checked that it does what you needed it to do?

I don't know how anyone can make this assumption in good faith. The poster did not imply anything along those lines.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#132

Post by throwaw12 »

kmac_ wrote: post #116
abcde666777 wrote: post #25

It's strange to me when articles like this describe the 'pain of writing code'. I've always found that the easy part. Anyway, this stuff makes me think of what it would be like if you had Tolkein around today using AI to assist him in his writing. 'Claude, generate me a paragraph describing Frodo and Sam having an argument over the trustworthiness of Gollum. Frodo should be defending Gollum and Sam should be on his s…

Current models won't write anything new, they are "just" great at matching, qualifying, and copying patterns. They bring a lot of value right now, but there is no creativity.

95% of the industry wasn't creating creative value, it was repetitive.

* auth + RBAC, known problem, just needs integration

* 3rd party integration, they have API, known problem, just needs integration

* make webpage responsive, millions of CSS lines

* even video gaming, most engines are already written, just add your character and call couple of APIs to move them in the 3D space

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#134

Post by jack_pp »

thwarted wrote: post #94
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are different. Some are painters and some are sculptors. Andy Warhol was a master draftsman but he didn't get famous off of his drawings. He got famous off of screen printing other people's art that he often didn't own. He just pioneered the technique and because it was new, people got excited, and today he's widely considered to be a generational artistic genius. I tend to believe that, in all things, the qua…

I tend to believe that, in all things, the quality of the output and how it is received is what matters and not the process that leads to producing the output. If the ends justifies the means is a well-worn disagreement/debate, and I think the only solid conclusion we've come to as a society is that it depends .

That's a moral debate, not suitable for this discussion.

The discussion at hand is about purity and efficiency. Some people are process oriented, perfectionists, purists that take great pride in how they made something. Even if the thing they made isn't useful at all to anyone except to stroke their own ego.

Others are more practical and see a tool as a tool, not every hammer you make needs to be beautiful and made from the best materials money can buy.

Depending on the context either approach can be correct. For some things being a detail oriented perfectionist is good. Things like a web framework or a programming language or an OS. But for most things, just being practical and finding a cheap and clever way to get to where you want to go will outperform most over engineering.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#135

Post by thagra »

If the author is this Alain di Chiappari, he works for a telehealth and psychology site:

https://theorg.com/org/unobravo-telehealth-psychology-servic...

It is interesting how many telehealth and crypto people are promoting AI (David Sacks being the finest of all specimens).

The article itself is of course an AI assisted mashup of all propaganda talking points. People using Unobravo should take note.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#136

Post by feastingonslop »

ipsento606 wrote: post #115

> Software engineers are scared of designing things themselves. When I use a framework, it's because I believe that the designers of that framework are i) probably better at software engineering than I am, and ii) have encountered all sorts of problems and scaling issues (both in terms of usage and actual codebase size) that I haven't encountered yet, and have designed the framework to ameliorate those problems. Thos…

And there was a time when using libraries and frameworks was the right thing to do, for that very reason. But LLMs have the equivalent of way more experience than any single programmer, and can generate just the bit of code that you actually need, without having to include the whole framework.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#137

Post by kmac_ »

throwaw12 wrote: post #132
kmac_ wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current models won't write anything new, they are "just" great at matching, qualifying, and copying patterns. They bring a lot of value right now, but there is no creativity.

95% of the industry wasn't creating creative value, it was repetitive. * auth + RBAC, known problem, just needs integration * 3rd party integration, they have API, known problem, just needs integration * make webpage responsive, millions of CSS lines * even video gaming, most engines are already written, just add your character and call couple of APIs to move them in the 3D space

That's why they bring a lot of value. Plus, new models and methods enable solutions that weren't available a decade ago.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#138

Post by bilbo0s »

throwaw12 wrote: post #132
kmac_ wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current models won't write anything new, they are "just" great at matching, qualifying, and copying patterns. They bring a lot of value right now, but there is no creativity.

95% of the industry wasn't creating creative value, it was repetitive. * auth + RBAC, known problem, just needs integration * 3rd party integration, they have API, known problem, just needs integration * make webpage responsive, millions of CSS lines * even video gaming, most engines are already written, just add your character and call couple of APIs to move them in the 3D space

So true.

You can only complain about creativity if you were actually being creative. 99.99999% of the industry was not.

But sure, for the 0.000001% of the industry coming up with new deep learning algorithms instead of just TF/PyTorch monkey-ing, maybe the LLMs won’t help as much as a good foundation in some pretty esoteric mathematics.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#139

Post by rglover »

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future.

You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code).

The hubris around AI is going to be hard to watch unwind. What the moment is I can't predict (nor do I care to), but there will be a shift when all of these vibe code only folks get cooked in a way that's closer to existential than benign.

Good time to be in business if you can see through the bs and understand how these systems actually function (hint: you won't have much competition soon as most people won't care until it's too late and will "price themselves out of the market").

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#140

Post by mnicky »

feastingonslop wrote: post #136
ipsento606 wrote: post #115

> Software engineers are scared of designing things themselves. When I use a framework, it's because I believe that the designers of that framework are i) probably better at software engineering than I am, and ii) have encountered all sorts of problems and scaling issues (both in terms of usage and actual codebase size) that I haven't encountered yet, and have designed the framework to ameliorate those problems. Thos…

And there was a time when using libraries and frameworks was the right thing to do, for that very reason. But LLMs have the equivalent of way more experience than any single programmer, and can generate just the bit of code that you actually need, without having to include the whole framework.

Critically, they will also enable faster future migration to a framework in case it proves useful.
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