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Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

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Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#141

Post by 001sky »

alaskamiller wrote: post #82

The irony of all this is that just less than 3 years ago Mark Pincus and Zynga was riding high. Pincus was voted as the CEO of the Year at the Crunchies. He was chosen to be the closer to Startup School, he projected Zynga as a place for people to want to go to there: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1041758 This is a story parallel to Lance Armstrong's own rise and fall. About how if you were to drill down, reall…

This is a story parallel to Lance Armstrong's own rise and fall. About how if you were to drill down, really drill down, to find the next ethical, justifiable company that used Facebook to great benefit for humanity you're going to be looking for the 27th, 28th, 29th place organizations.

-- Interesting.

If you look at the data, from 1996-2005 (10 Years)

> source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancear...

TDF: Of those that placed top 3x: 15% clean, ~85% were not. You know you have a problem when you are on the wrong side of the 80 /20 rule, as an entire field.

Lets hope the ills that plague Zynga are not like the TDF:

Top 3 x 10 years = 30 places Only 5 of these "places" were awarded to "clean riders", of which there were only 3.

First - None Second - Joseba Beloki (1) Thrid - Beloki(2), Bobby Ulrich, Fernano Escartin.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#142

Post by Karunamon »

StavrosK wrote: post #117
gameshot911 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side discussion concerning the No True Scotsman fallacy. If 100/100 people agreed with "A", does the fallacy still apply? Can you say "just because everyone thinks 'X' doesn't make it fact"^? ^I know that people believing something doesn't define facts - in this case I'm wondering if the fallacy would still apply.

Of course it would still apply. The difference here is that some people have a different (yet still immutable) definition for what a game is. The fallacy is when you keep changing the definition to fit the data.

Except that, at least in my case, no such change was made. I took the definition I used directly from a dictionary. It looks like in this case someone is trying really hard to shout down an argument as fallacy when no such error is being made.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#143

Post by potatolicious »

dkrich wrote: post #106

I'm surprised to see so many people suggesting that Zynga's problems are purely moral. I think that gives them too much credit. I personally have no problem with their business practices from a strictly moral point of view. Caveat Emptor. No, for me the problem is much simpler. Its a shitty business run by very poor business minds. That may sound dramatic and sensational, but let's consider the facts: they paid $250…

> "No, for me the problem is much simpler. Its a shitty business run by very poor business minds."

Or maybe they were very shrewd business minds. After all, you have a business that was very much a fad - and any insider would be able to tell you that, but yet somehow you've convinced the wider world that this was a sustainable new trend, and to pour unimaginable amounts of money into your company.

So, tons of funding, and you can see the cliff at the end of the train tracks. What do you do?

Lavish offices? Lavish perks? Lavish accoutrements? Lavish trips?

Horrifically irresponsible and downright illegal? Perhaps. But in the circumstances, perhaps the best (selfish) move.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#144

Post by Karunamon »

chucknelson wrote: post #119
danudey wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a mobile game development company in Vancouver, and it's great here. Best environment I've ever worked in. Good people, good management, get in at 8:30 and leave at 5, etc. Not everyone in the industry is scum, though it's certainly not uncommon.

There are always exceptions, but there sure is a large amount of anecdotal evidence for not-so-great working conditions in general across the gaming industry. If you follow gaming news you'll also hear over and over about lots of "crunch" time, etc.

I've only heard about that at a few big name companies (i.e. EA, Zynga) who's working conditions are legendarily bad. What about some of the other big players? Nintendo? Microsoft? Rare? Square Enix? Valve?

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#148

Post by gwern »

danilocampos wrote: post #23

Conceptually, I love every bit of bad Zynga news. I like to be reassured that a company will, in the long term, fail when its products are cynically designed to manipulate. That a company will fail when their strategy assumes it's okay to blatantly, consistently, continuously lift design from other firms and products. Practically, though, bad Zynga news feels terrible . Because the guys who architected this repugnant…

Reminds me of Carlyle's classic quote on bankruptcy: http://lesswrong.com/lw/43w/rationality_quotes_february_2011...

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#149

Post by samstave »

ghshephard wrote: post #98
danilocampos wrote: post #23

Conceptually, I love every bit of bad Zynga news. I like to be reassured that a company will, in the long term, fail when its products are cynically designed to manipulate. That a company will fail when their strategy assumes it's okay to blatantly, consistently, continuously lift design from other firms and products. Practically, though, bad Zynga news feels terrible . Because the guys who architected this repugnant…

Well, if it makes you feel better, I had a conversation with a Zynga employee last night, who is pretty happy about leaving the company. In particular, he wants to go do something he believes in, and to quote him, "and i don't hugely believe in selling virtual cows" So - to some degree, the crash and possible termination of Zynga's business model, enables these people to escape the company. If the stock had value, th…

When i worked for a company that was acquired by Lockheed Martin, immediately upon the announcement of acquisition, several employees resigned saying they could not knowing work for a war monger.

Their conviction was greater than the potential wealth and very commendable.

Your comment insinuates that these employees had no morals and were freed by the failure.

This is actually a fucked up position.

There are many factors that play into this, the most significant of which is the employees living paycheck to paycheck where they cannot actually leave on a high ground position due to their needing the money... and your point is that "well, at least the company failed freeing them of any moral risk of staying with the company should it have succeeded and trapped them with lucrative options!"

To this I say, fully and openly:

Fuck every single thing about Zynga and the attitudes and policies it may beget.

FUCK ZYNGA

and I have zero sympathy for any of its employees in any regard.

I have been openly decrying this company for years - and I still will - I can't stand such bullshit in any industry and Silicon Valley should SHUN them and be ashamed of every relation to this company.

We are trying to make a better world here, aren't we folks?

If not, then fuck you - because if your goal is only self-enrichment then I despise you.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#150

Post by eropple »

MartinCron wrote: post #91
benihana wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calling the software that Zynga makes a "game" is insulting to real games. No True Scotsman fallacy. Just because you don't think they're games doesn't make it fact. They make games, and people criticize them for it. The only thing your post did was help better prove OP's point.

No True Scotsman fallacy It is, at least for me, more just transparent snobbery than the No True Scotsman fallacy. The same way some video game journalists don't like to cover Minecraft, as it's "not a real video game".

Or it's an interpretation that the motives of the creator are important.

In my mind, Zynga "games" are to games what crack dealers are to entrepreneurs. It may be a subset, but it's a subset about which I believe quite firmly that those that participate should be shunned. They are an unethical company that produce products that I can describe only as predatory.

(And, yes, World of Warcraft falls in the same bucket.)

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