Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office • Hacker News Board

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#101

Post by danilocampos » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:07 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #98

danilocampos wrote: post #23

Conceptually, I love every bit of bad Zynga news. I like to be reassured that a company will, in the long term, fail when its products are cynically designed to manipulate. That a company will fail when their strategy assumes it's okay to blatantly, consistently, continuously lift design from other firms and products. Practically, though, bad Zynga news feels terrible . Because the guys who architected this repugnant…

Well, if it makes you feel better, I had a conversation with a Zynga employee last night, who is pretty happy about leaving the company. In particular, he wants to go do something he believes in, and to quote him, "and i don't hugely believe in selling virtual cows" So - to some degree, the crash and possible termination of Zynga's business model, enables these people to escape the company. If the stock had value, th…

This is a really important perspective I hadn't considered. Money can be a very corrosive incentive. If, say, you have student loans or a family to support, you might decide to trade your personal sanity for a payoff.

Glad the decision to leave is easier, at least.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#102

Post by zevyoura » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:07 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #44

pud wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zynga is a company that makes online games. And people often criticize Zynga for making games (online games, Flash games, Facebook games, casual games, etc.)

Calling the software that Zynga makes a "game" is insulting to real games. Zynga's are usually different skins on top of a number incrementing simulator (for example, anything with "ville" in the name), that happen to increase a little bit faster if you bug your friends (often and repeatedly) and have them increment their numbers too, and you can only increment your numbers so often - but more if you pay real cash mo…

Do you consider WoW a game?

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#103

Post by hkmurakami » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:12 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #77

Jach wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very hard to feel any pity for the employees that knowingly got involved with such a company, and I would be surprised if many of Zynga's best and most hardworking employees didn't jump ship long ago.

Any developer with half a brain should know that the game industry should be avoided like the plague. Long working hours, abusive management, racism (the Kixeye debacle), the issues just go on and on. Take patio11's advice and go into B2B, you'll make money hand over fist with much more manageable working hours.

Don't forget good apples like Valve :(

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#104

Post by klawed » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:13 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #23

Conceptually, I love every bit of bad Zynga news. I like to be reassured that a company will, in the long term, fail when its products are cynically designed to manipulate. That a company will fail when their strategy assumes it's okay to blatantly, consistently, continuously lift design from other firms and products. Practically, though, bad Zynga news feels terrible . Because the guys who architected this repugnant…

I mostly agree with what you write. However, I have to say that, even 2 years ago, based on my somewhat limited knowledge of Zynga, I would have needed to be EXTREMELY desperate to an accept an offer from them. I left MS because I couldn't find a single product they made, aside from XBox, that I had any passion around, whatsoever. I know that I need to be fairly enthusiastic about the products or services that work on every day - the promise of a possible payout would not have been enough to get me to join an organization led by team that seems deceptive, unoriginal and unscrupulous.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#105

Post by jlarocco » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:21 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #23

Conceptually, I love every bit of bad Zynga news. I like to be reassured that a company will, in the long term, fail when its products are cynically designed to manipulate. That a company will fail when their strategy assumes it's okay to blatantly, consistently, continuously lift design from other firms and products. Practically, though, bad Zynga news feels terrible . Because the guys who architected this repugnant…

Meh. It's not like Zynga's employees didn't know what Zynga was doing. And they still got a salary and (probably) benefits, which is all they should really expect anyway. Counting on stock options is a bad idea. And the job market for software developers is really good right now.

Yeah, it's a bummer they'll have to find new jobs, but I don't feel particularly bad for them.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#106

Post by dkrich » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:23 PM UTC

I'm surprised to see so many people suggesting that Zynga's problems are purely moral. I think that gives them too much credit. I personally have no problem with their business practices from a strictly moral point of view. Caveat Emptor.

No, for me the problem is much simpler. Its a shitty business run by very poor business minds. That may sound dramatic and sensational, but let's consider the facts: they paid $250 million for a company of 15 developers whose most valuable asset was a mobile version of Pictionary that had been on the market for just three months. Completely unprofitable, they built a multilmillion dollar state of the art office in San Francisco. That's something you do when you are wildly successful, maybe. I work for a company many orders of magnitude more successful than Zynga and our office looks like a dungeon. So what? That's being wise with cashflow. That's a company I want to invest in. Finally, a friend of mine works for Zynga and he was regularly taking all expense paid trips. For his one year anniversary he was sent to England and Ireland as a reward.

I don't think of Zynga's management as sinister evildoers. I think of them as immature and completely unfit to manage a company. I say good riddance but I do hope those laid off find better opportunities soon.

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#107

Post by w1ntermute » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:27 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #103

w1ntermute wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any developer with half a brain should know that the game industry should be avoided like the plague. Long working hours, abusive management, racism (the Kixeye debacle), the issues just go on and on. Take patio11's advice and go into B2B, you'll make money hand over fist with much more manageable working hours.

Don't forget good apples like Valve :(

Doesn't it say in Valve's handbook (the one released earlier this year) that it doesn't actually consider itself to be a gaming company?

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#108

Post by egillie » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:27 PM UTC

Danieru wrote: post #69

mey wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I would call SimFarm (SimAnt or SimIsle) classic. SimTower on the other hand.

SimFarm was a classic but rather I'd hesitate to call FarmHappy a SimFarm clone. SimFarm is perhaps the most complex Sim game, I had an easier time with even SimIsle. Gameplay wise there is almost no intersection. What disappoints me about the current social gaming genre is how many games what would have otherwise been decent tycoons are ruined with slot machine mechanics.

I've been wondering what the big deal is since these games just reminded me of Tycoons anyways, but you have a point with the "slot machine mechanics" bit...though the Tycoons could get pretty slot machiney. I think a lot of the backlash is the fact that these are popular with casual or non-gamers, so they have an image problem with "real" gamers.

You're the first person I've "met" who got SimIsle. Maybe I need to give it another try...

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#109

Post by bostonpete » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:36 PM UTC

thwest wrote: post #74

donretag wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few of those are for Austin. Many are from CA/NY companies.

Very few Zynga employees were from Austin, many are from CA/NY.

The article only mentions layoffs from the Austin and Boston offices...

Re: Zynga May Have Just Laid Off 100+ Employees From Its Austin Office

#110

Post by gameshot911 » Tue, Oct 23, 2012, 10:41 PM UTC

benihana wrote: post #62

Karunamon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the software that Zynga makes a "game" is insulting to real games. Zynga's are usually different skins on top of a number incrementing simulator (for example, anything with "ville" in the name), that happen to increase a little bit faster if you bug your friends (often and repeatedly) and have them increment their numbers too, and you can only increment your numbers so often - but more if you pay real cash mo…

> Calling the software that Zynga makes a "game" is insulting to real games. No True Scotsman fallacy. Just because you don't think they're games doesn't make it fact. They make games, and people criticize them for it. The only thing your post did was help better prove OP's point.

Side discussion concerning the No True Scotsman fallacy. If 100/100 people agreed with "A", does the fallacy still apply? Can you say "just because everyone thinks 'X' doesn't make it fact"^?

^I know that people believing something doesn't define facts - in this case I'm wondering if the fallacy would still apply.