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My AI Adoption Journey

mitchellh.com

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Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#11

Post by sho_hn »

mjr00 wrote: post #8

> Break down sessions into separate clear, actionable tasks. Don't try to "draw the owl" in one mega session. This is the key one I think. At one extreme you can tell an agent "write a for loop that iterates over the variable `numbers` and computes the sum" and they'll do this successfully, but the scope is so small there's not much point in using an LLM. On the other extreme you can tell an agent "make me an app tha…

This is actually an aspect of using AI tools I really enjoy: Forming an educated intuition about what the tool is good at, and tastefully framing and scoping the tasks I give it to get better results.

It cognitively feels very similar to other classic programming activities, like modularization at any level from architecture to code units/functions, thoughtfully choosing how to lay out and chunk things. It's always been one of the things that make programming pleasurable for me, and some of that feeling returns when slicing up tasks for agents.

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#12

Post by alterom »

therein wrote: post #2

[flagged]

>Underwhelming

Which is why I like this article. It's realistic in terms of describing the value-propositio of LLM-based coding assist tools (aka, AI agents).

The fact that it's underwhelming compared to the hype we see every day is a very, very good sign that it's practical.

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#13

Post by fix4fun »

Thanks for sharing your experiences :)

You mentioned "harness engineering". How do you approach building "actual programmed tools" (like screenshot scripts) specifically for an LLM's consumption rather than a human's? Are there specific output formats or constraints you’ve found most effective?

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#14

Post by tux1968 »

dakiol wrote: post #5
vonneumannstan wrote: post #3

For the AI skeptics reading this, there is an overwhelming probability that Mitchell is a better developer than you. If he gets value out of these tools you should think about why you can't.

Don't get it. What's the relation between Mitchell being a "better" developer than most of us (and better is always relative, but that's another story) and getting value out of AI? That's like saying Bezos is a way better businessman than you, so you should really hear his tips about becoming a billionaire. No sense (because what works for him probably doesn't work for you) Tons of respect for Mitchell. I think you a…

Maybe you disagree with it, but it seems like a pretty straightforward argument: A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me". The OP is arguing that someone, who can do better than most of us, disagrees with this line of thinking. And if we have respect for his abilities, and recognize them as better than our own, we should perhaps re-assess our own rationale in dismissing the utility of AI assistance. If he can get value out of it, surely we can too if we don't argue ourselves out of giving it a fair shake. The flip side of that argument might be that you have to be a much better programmer than most of us are, to properly extract value out of the AI... maybe it's only useful in the hands of a real expert.

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#15

Post by jedbrooke »

mjr00 wrote: post #8

> Break down sessions into separate clear, actionable tasks. Don't try to "draw the owl" in one mega session. This is the key one I think. At one extreme you can tell an agent "write a for loop that iterates over the variable `numbers` and computes the sum" and they'll do this successfully, but the scope is so small there's not much point in using an LLM. On the other extreme you can tell an agent "make me an app tha…

so many times I catch myself asking a coding agent e.g “please print the output” and it will update the file with “print (output)”.

Maybe there’s something about not having to context switch between natural language and code just makes it _feel_ easier sometimes

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#17

Post by jplusequalt »

tux1968 wrote: post #14
dakiol wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get it. What's the relation between Mitchell being a "better" developer than most of us (and better is always relative, but that's another story) and getting value out of AI? That's like saying Bezos is a way better businessman than you, so you should really hear his tips about becoming a billionaire. No sense (because what works for him probably doesn't work for you) Tons of respect for Mitchell. I think you a…

Maybe you disagree with it, but it seems like a pretty straightforward argument: A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me". The OP is arguing that someone, who can do better than most of us, disagrees with this line of thinking. And if we have respect for his abilities, and recognize them as better than our own, we should perhaps re-assess our own rationale in dismissing the utili…

>A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me"

Some of us enjoy learning how systems work, and derive satisfaction from the feeling of doing something hard, and feel that AI removes that satisfaction. If I wanted to have something else write the code, I would focus on becoming a product manager, or a technical lead. But as is, this is a craft, and I very much enjoy the autonomy that comes with being able to use this skill and grow it.

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#19

Post by tux1968 »

jplusequalt wrote: post #17
tux1968 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you disagree with it, but it seems like a pretty straightforward argument: A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me". The OP is arguing that someone, who can do better than most of us, disagrees with this line of thinking. And if we have respect for his abilities, and recognize them as better than our own, we should perhaps re-assess our own rationale in dismissing the utili…

>A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me" Some of us enjoy learning how systems work, and derive satisfaction from the feeling of doing something hard, and feel that AI removes that satisfaction. If I wanted to have something else write the code, I would focus on becoming a product manager, or a technical lead. But as is, this is a craft, and I very much enjoy the autonomy that c…

Nobody is trying to talk anyone out of their hobby or artisanal creativeness. A lot of people enjoy walking, even after the invention of the automobile. There's nothing wrong with that, there are even times when it's the much more efficient choice. But in the context of say transporting packages across the country... it's not really relevant how much you enjoy one or the other; only one of them can get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. And we can assume that's the context and spirit of the OP's argument.

Re: My AI Adoption Journey

#20

Post by mitchellh »

jplusequalt wrote: post #17
tux1968 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you disagree with it, but it seems like a pretty straightforward argument: A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me". The OP is arguing that someone, who can do better than most of us, disagrees with this line of thinking. And if we have respect for his abilities, and recognize them as better than our own, we should perhaps re-assess our own rationale in dismissing the utili…

>A lot of us dismiss AI because "it can't be trusted to do as good a job as me" Some of us enjoy learning how systems work, and derive satisfaction from the feeling of doing something hard, and feel that AI removes that satisfaction. If I wanted to have something else write the code, I would focus on becoming a product manager, or a technical lead. But as is, this is a craft, and I very much enjoy the autonomy that c…

There is no dichotomy of craft and AI.

I consider myself a craftsman as well. AI gives me the ability to focus on the parts I both enjoy working on and that demand the most craftsmanship. A lot of what I use AI for and show in the blog isn’t coding at all, but a way to allow me to spend more time coding.

This reads like you maybe didn’t read the blog post, so I’ll mention there many examples there.

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