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Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

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Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#231

Post by bonesss »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #183
_fat_santa wrote: post #33

The biggest issue I see is Microsoft's entire mentality around AI adoption that focuses more on "getting the numbers up" then actually delivering a product people want to use. Most of the announcements I hear about Copilot, it's always how they've integrated it into some other piece of software or cut a deal with yet another vendor to add it to that vendors product offering. On the surface there's nothing wrong with…

I just attended a training about AI Foundry today and they advertised thousands of integrations and support for like 50 different models. There is no way in hell all that stuff is tested and working properly. Microsoft seems to just be trying to throw as much chum as possible in the ocean and seeing what bites.

I see Microsoft throwing spaghetti at the wall just in time as “AI” functionality hits government and educational procurement procedures.

The copilot product is obviously borked, and is outshone by ‘free’ competitors (Gemini, ChatGPT). But since the attributes and uses are so fuzzy, they have a minimum viable product to abort meaningful talk about competition while securing big contracts from governments and delivering dog water.

My anecdotal observations of copilot are people using competing products soon after trialling. Reports say Anthropics solution is in widespread use at Microsoft… a bunch of devs on MacBooks and iPhones using Claude to build and sell … not what they themselves use (since they are smart and have taste?).

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#232

Post by SilverElfin »

direwolf20 wrote: post #118
_fat_santa wrote: post #33

The biggest issue I see is Microsoft's entire mentality around AI adoption that focuses more on "getting the numbers up" then actually delivering a product people want to use. Most of the announcements I hear about Copilot, it's always how they've integrated it into some other piece of software or cut a deal with yet another vendor to add it to that vendors product offering. On the surface there's nothing wrong with…

They boosted copilot numbers by renaming office to copilot. No I'm not joking. Musk could learn from this to boost his FSD subscription numbers for his bonus payouts.

They did the same thing with Azure right? I remember articles about Microsoft stock that would mention that Azure subscription numbers included Office 365. But the thing is, their weird game of inflating numbers worked. There wasn’t really any negative consequence of doing that. So why wouldn’t they do it again? It’s yet another unfortunate example of dishonesty being rewarded these days.

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#233

Post by FearNotDaniel »

Sharlin wrote: post #141
profsummergig wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Teams and OneNote. If you're on Windows 11, search for "Startup Apps" and disable CoPilot, Teams and OneNote (if you don't use them). It'll speed up your system. CoPilot is a great name. But Microsoft being Microsoft even messed that up. Apparently there's a Github CoPilot and a Windows CoPilot, and they're different.

Those are just two of the several Copilots MS now has, including re-branding the entire Office suite as Copilot… It's is a brand - as you said, a name – not a product.

Flashback to the days when literally every MS product had “.NET” shoehorned into its name somewhere because they had to show they were hip to this newfangled information superhighway thing. The development platform that still has that name 20 years later was just one of a zillion confusingly named marketing initiatives back then.

Edit: Wikipedia sums up the "failed branding campaign" quite scathingly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET_strategy

I think that campaign followed on from everything being named "Enterprise" something. I still miss the days when SQL Server Management Studio was called "Enterprise Manager"...

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#234

Post by bonesss »

onion2k wrote: post #220
Daz912 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel integration is amazing, saves me hours a week and helps me write complicated formulas in seconds.

That only good if you're doing measurably more with the time you save. I feel like I'm significantly faster in parts of my job using Copilot, but when I try to get data on what I'm doing now that I wasn't doing before I had it I don't come up with anything. I know I'm working faster, but the time seems to have just gone .

Working faster, but at what?

LLM workflow:

Describing to Claude that I need an edit made in the second paragraph of the third section feels easy, comfortable, and straightforward. I’m using my speech centers, speech to text, and then I wait for a generation during which I hit my phone or Reddit. Poof, the text flies out like magic, taking 20+ seconds, then I re-re-re-read it to make sure the edit was good and nothing was lost in that edit. Oops, the edit inverted the logic of the paragraph, lemme repeat the above… and again… time flies! 2 hours gone in a flash.

Old and boring workflow:

I gruellingly move my mouse to open a file, then take a coffee break. I come back and left-click into the sentence that sucks. I hit Reddit to deal with the anxiety… I think, boo, and then type out the edit I needed. It’s bad, I fix. Coffee break. Squiggly red line from a misspelling? I fix. I google and find a better turn of phrase, copy and paste it in manually with a little edit. Ugh. This sucks. I suck, work sucks. Time sucks. 35 entire minutes of my life has been wasted… time to get another coffee and check Reddit.

———

Working with an LLM is kinda like working under stage hypnosis. The moment to moment feelings are deceptive and we humans are unreliable recorders of time-usage. Particularly when engaged in unwanted effort.

Google has had all this tech for a minute. Their restrained application and lack of 10x-vibe-chad talk make me think their output measurements are aligned with my measurements.

1 rabbit hole hallucination wrong-turn can eat up a lot, lot, lot of magic one-shotting.

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#235

Post by exceptione »

zxcvasd wrote: post #78
exceptione wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which "just doesn't work" Some are more tech savy than others here, but I guess almost anyone can do the following trick successfully: step 1. visit https://endeavouros.com/ step 2. download iso step 3. flash iso on medium step 4. boot medium, installation window shows step 5. you choose KDE, yes: KDE. Do more mouse clicks. step 6. system tells you it's done, and offers you to reboot. Done.

> I guess almost anyone can do the following almost everyone knows the formula for olvine and quartz, too, of course theres probably less than 10 people in my entire company that know half of the words you wrote there. whats an "iso"? what is "flashing" the "iso"? how do i "boot medium"? what is "KDE" and why do i want to say yes? (i know what these are, and maybe most people browsing a tech-focused forum with "hacke…

You are right, I somehow forgot the word "here" after "anyone". I don't expect the average laymen be able to follow these steps, but I have those expectations from the people here.

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#236

Post by InterlooperX »

Etheryte wrote: post #13
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #3

> push by Chief Executive Satya Nadella to transform Microsoft into an AI-first company Why can't we have a 'user-first' company. Maybe think about the user of your products a wee tiny bit. But no, it is not to be.

Because most of Microsoft's revenue is not generated by end-users. It's large government agencies and big corporations where the end-user is ten steps detached from the actual decision to buy or not to buy something.

Which is why it is baffling to me that MS won't let the end users alone.

I am still battling with the fact they are hell bend on removing the whole "local users" approach of personal computing.

Why stop giving people the option to use their computer the way they want to? What does MS get out of pushing everybody into online account for an on prem system?

It should be evident to them by now that there is a portion of users that will continue to find ways to use their computer the way they want to.

This cat and mouse game has gone on long enough. MS should be happy to retain any end user they can at this point and not continue to piss of some nerds that still use your operating system under the one condition that they get to do so the way they see fit.

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#237

Post by magic_hamster »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #98
anthonypasq wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your premise that the leaders of every single one of the top 10 biggest and most profitable companies in human history are all preposterously wrong about a new technology in their existing industry is hard to believe. AI is literally the fastest growing and most widely used/deployed technologies ever.

Yup, I've been here before. Back in 1995 we called it "The Internet." :-) Not to be snarky here, as we know the Internet has, in fact, revolutionized a lot of things and generated a lot of wealth. But in 1995, it was "a trillion dollar market" where none of the underlying infrastructure could really take advantage of it. AI is like that today, a pretty amazing technology that at some point will probably revolutionize…

> at some point will probably revolutionize a lot of things we do

The revolution already happened. I can't imagine life without AI today. Not just for coding (which I actually lament) but just in general day to day use. Sure it's not perfect but I think it's quite difficult to ignore how the world changed in just 3-4 years.

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#238

Post by alkonaut »

_fat_santa wrote: post #33

The biggest issue I see is Microsoft's entire mentality around AI adoption that focuses more on "getting the numbers up" then actually delivering a product people want to use. Most of the announcements I hear about Copilot, it's always how they've integrated it into some other piece of software or cut a deal with yet another vendor to add it to that vendors product offering. On the surface there's nothing wrong with…

Yeah did they test any of this? Did they run a pilot and ask 1000 users did you use it? Did you like it? Is it better with this than without it?

It's as though they think some "AI revolution" will come, and all they need to do is just make sure that by the time it does, they will have sprinkled enough AI pixie dust on their products and services. And then they added some KPI's in the organization and called it a day.

Most of all the whole strategy feels extremely faceless. Who is the visionary here? Where are the proud product launches and visionary blog posts about how all this happens?

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#239

Post by wongarsu »

username223 wrote: post #204
raincole wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is rather interesting how dead-focused Microsoft is on AI. Yeah. Right now the of office.com is: > Microsoft 365 Copilot | Create, Share and Collaborate with Office and AI Microsoft 365 Copilot... what a product name.

> Microsoft 365 Copilot | Create, Share and Collaborate with Office and AI That's some insight into Microsoft's brain rot, isn't it? "Imagine spending every day for the next year dealing with robot office software."

I spend most work days with robot dev software (claude code). If Copilot had a similar ability to do useful work with meaningful oversight I wouldn't mind spending time with it. Sadly it does not

Re: Microsoft's Copilot chatbot is running into problems

#240

Post by paride5745 »

reddalo wrote: post #129
nitwit005 wrote: post #71

I always remember the pointless integration of Google+ into YouTube that simply annoyed everyone. There's surprising willingness to damage an existing successful product to try to save a new struggling product. Microsoft has also tried hard to push Edge, annoying nearly every Windows user on the planet, with no real success.

I'm still super mad at Google+ because it was clearly the cause for Google Reader been killed. That's when I started losing trust in Google as a company.

They could have led the way to a social web using Google Reader.

Make a Disqus-like comment section that shows the comments in RSS articles from Reader.

Also Reddit, by empowering the GReader Groups capabilities.

But no, let's copy Facebook and force everybody on it. And kill Google Talk while at it.

I'll never forgive Google for that.

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