Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Untitled topic

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 76 posts

Re: undefined

#31

Post by tolerance »

Everyone talking about this being out of touch with the present and how figures in proximity to Graham don’t fit the description of nice he’s referring to should think about this passage:

> For most of history success meant control of scarce resources. One got that by fighting, whether literally in the case of pastoral nomads driving hunter-gatherers into marginal lands, or metaphorically in the case of Gilded Age financiers contending with one another to assemble railroad monopolies. For most of history, success meant success at zero-sum games. And in most of them meanness was not a handicap but probably an advantage.

> That is changing. Increasingly the games that matter are not zero-sum. Increasingly you win not by fighting to get control of a scarce resource, but by having new ideas and building new things.

What’s changed?

Edit:

The paragraph after should be included also, I think

Re: undefined

#33

Post by b40d-48b2-979e »

raffael_de wrote: post #23
tigertheory wrote: post #12

I like Paul Graham a lot but this is simply not true. Look at the most successful people of recent times and you will quickly see a consistent pattern of meanness when you dig into how they work with others: - Steve Jobs - Bill Gates - Elon Musk - Sam Altman - Etc.

But didn't all those people you list fail at the end of the day? Bill Gates is not just unfaithful, he even considered slipping his wife STD medication to avoid having to talk about his state of affairs. He's now alone and the only people willing to care for him are probably very few old friends he didn't alienate, yet. The rest is just after his money. Steve Jobs was an infamously bad father and husband, just as Elo…

    Sam Altman ... I mean, just the accusations are so cringe
Yeah.. sexually assaulting your sibling is "so cringe".

Re: undefined

#34

Post by measurablefunc »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #16

He’s saying growth mindsets “win” and zero-sum players, the mean ones, stagnate. This is true as a system— who wants to invest with someone intent on gouging you— and it’s true as a function of effort— if you spend your time on petty tricks and tactics, you will, in the long run, “grow” very little.

How do you explain Sam Altman's success?

Re: undefined

#35

Post by stickfigure »

humannature1 wrote: post #20

I wish this was true. Yet, I think we all have some skin in the game to why this article rings false. When it comes to getting an advantage, people often look the other way at meanness. For example, it’s easy to complain about how Amazon treats their employees. Yet, we choose to buy from Amazon because it’s convenient, cheap, and everyone else is doing it. We might see an organization treat someone else unfairly but…

I don't think Amazon treats their employees badly. Warehouse workers aren't compensated like software engineers, but what do you expect?

I'm sure there are shitty managers at Amazon (in warehouses and in software) but by and large I believe blue collar Amazon workers have it about as well as blue collar workers everywhere. Maybe better.

I don't really see the problem here.

Re: undefined

#37

Post by marcosdumay »

tolerance wrote: post #31

Everyone talking about this being out of touch with the present and how figures in proximity to Graham don’t fit the description of nice he’s referring to should think about this passage: > For most of history success meant control of scarce resources. One got that by fighting, whether literally in the case of pastoral nomads driving hunter-gatherers into marginal lands, or metaphorically in the case of Gilded Age fi…

For a couple of decades, there were regulations that ensured market competitiveness. PG made a fortune during that time, but it's gone now.

Re: undefined

#38

Post by siriusastrebe »

tolerance wrote: post #31

Everyone talking about this being out of touch with the present and how figures in proximity to Graham don’t fit the description of nice he’s referring to should think about this passage: > For most of history success meant control of scarce resources. One got that by fighting, whether literally in the case of pastoral nomads driving hunter-gatherers into marginal lands, or metaphorically in the case of Gilded Age fi…

An abundance of resources and opportunity?

Re: undefined

#39

Post by butlike »

stickfigure wrote: post #35
humannature1 wrote: post #20

I wish this was true. Yet, I think we all have some skin in the game to why this article rings false. When it comes to getting an advantage, people often look the other way at meanness. For example, it’s easy to complain about how Amazon treats their employees. Yet, we choose to buy from Amazon because it’s convenient, cheap, and everyone else is doing it. We might see an organization treat someone else unfairly but…

I don't think Amazon treats their employees badly. Warehouse workers aren't compensated like software engineers, but what do you expect? I'm sure there are shitty managers at Amazon (in warehouses and in software) but by and large I believe blue collar Amazon workers have it about as well as blue collar workers everywhere. Maybe better. I don't really see the problem here.

Amazon could remove the timer on bathroom breaks to restore some of their humanity, e.g.

Re: undefined

#40

Post by FeteCommuniste »

raffael_de wrote: post #23
tigertheory wrote: post #12

I like Paul Graham a lot but this is simply not true. Look at the most successful people of recent times and you will quickly see a consistent pattern of meanness when you dig into how they work with others: - Steve Jobs - Bill Gates - Elon Musk - Sam Altman - Etc.

But didn't all those people you list fail at the end of the day? Bill Gates is not just unfaithful, he even considered slipping his wife STD medication to avoid having to talk about his state of affairs. He's now alone and the only people willing to care for him are probably very few old friends he didn't alienate, yet. The rest is just after his money. Steve Jobs was an infamously bad father and husband, just as Elo…

Graham's essay seems to be mostly about material success, which the listed people have in spades.
Post reply on HN