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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negative. I encourage you to go look at the election results.

Kamala Harris/Tim Walz 75,019,230 48.34% Donald J. Trump/J.D. Vance 77,303,568 49.81% Various Others 2,878,359 1.85% So, 50.19% voted against Trump, 49.81% voted for him.

Voting for a 3rd candidate isn't a vote against one of the other two, or does your logic work both ways? so 51.66% of people voted against Harris?

You know what, I don't even care if you respond. The election is over, and we can twist these numbers until the next election.

The logical leaps taken about voting for/against someone are troubling. The tropes around this are disturbing. The emotional vitriol around all of those are even worse.

The dude is the sitting POTUS. He stinks. Bitching about meaningless percentages isn't productive... at all.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eu Inc. will become a reality soon, so it isn't like the Commission is standing still: eu.inc/what-is-eu-inc

EU inc is worthless without alignment on a single capital market for fundraising and ultimately going public, sane/interoperable labor laws for hiring, and a single language market over the long term. The last piece is extremely important. Being able to raise money and hire across the EU with no friction would be fantastic, but it means nothing if actually selling into different EU markets has massive language barrie…

Political tidal forces in Europe have, for quite some time, pointed more toward fragmentation than toward strengthening common structures. What makes this particularly ironic is that this impulse is often strongest among the same voices that most loudly lament Europe’s failure to build globally competitive industries—software foremost among them.

That tension has always struck me as deeply paradoxical. In the post-Brexit era, we have had a very visible case study in what happens when shared European frameworks are removed. The UK has spent years scrambling to recreate institutions, regulatory mechanisms, and coordination structures that had previously been provided at the EU level. One might expect that experience to have clarified the value of those structures. It largely hasn’t.

A significant part of the problem is deep lack of understanding. "EU bureaucracy" is a common target of criticism, yet it is remarkably rare for critics to have any concrete sense of what that bureaucracy actually does. The EU tends to appear in public discourse only when politicians argue, or when a regulation is framed as an intrusion on national sovereignty.

The everyday, unglamorous work of harmonization, reducing friction, enabling cross-border activity, and making markets function at scale—remains almost entirely invisible.

This creates a structural communication failure. The benefits of integration are mostly preventative and cumulative: things that don’t break, costs that don’t arise, barriers that quietly disappear. These effects are hard to convey through headlines or sound bites. Dry institutional reports are a poor match for a public sphere with limited patience for complexity. The result is a persistent undervaluation of the very mechanisms that make large, integrated markets possible.

Language barriers are often invoked in these discussions, and while they are real, their relevance is frequently overstated in this context. In white-collar professions, English proficiency is generally passable to good. This is especially true in software engineering, where English is effectively the working language of the field.

That said, proficiency is often domain-specific: people may read and write technical English fluently while still struggling with more active uses such as negotiation, persuasion, or conflict resolution.

In typical blue collar-type professions, by contrast, language barriers are substantial and unavoidable.

Where the problem becomes genuinely self-defeating is in the insistence that using English as a shared working language represents some form of cultural submission or imperialism. This view, rooted more in nationalist romanticism than in economic reality, adds pointless friction. It is beyond stupid to waste resources publishing official documents in 24 different languages. But eliminating this waste is a hard sell when you ask the muggles.

It brings us back to the central contradiction: the same people who regret Europe’s inability to produce globally dominant software companies often support attitudes and policies that fragment markets, raise transaction costs, and make such outcomes far less likely.

Europe cannot simultaneously expect to realize the benefits of scale and reject the mechanisms that make scale possible.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate? https://nextcloud.com/blog/press_releases/digital-sovereignt... > On a side and more general note: "Global Innovation Index 2025" "Europe hosts 15 economies ranked among the global top 25, including six in the top 10. Switzerland (1st) retains the global lead, followed by Sweden (2nd), the United Kingdom (6th) and Finland (7th). Thirteen out of 39 European economies covered moved up the ranks, ma…

The issue with these 'international'forums is that it's basically European countries tanking itself. There's a meme going around online where it says "the world condemns..." On top and then a map of the globe with Europe and America highlighted. Europe's issue is that it only considers itself. Lithuania.. guys come on. And the Netherlands is not even in your list showing how ridiculous this entire thing is. As it goe…

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

Also, if you could cut down on the ideological battle stuff generally, that would be good. I'm not sure your account has quite been using HN primarily for that (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...) but it's close enough that you should probably recalibrate.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#584
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and no significant large technology companies I can only assume this is a comparison to the US The world doesn't care about the US yard stick so much. Even less now than before. We in Europe don't care our economy is smaller than the US, that our cars are smaller etc. Bigger is not always better

You say stuff like this, and then simultaneously complain when the US winds up owning the entire technology stack and being the predominate western superpower. So which is it? Does scale not matter, or are you unhappy with the outcome of ignoring it?

[dead]

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: fighter jets, the US and China are each producing about 4x as many jets as all of Europe combined. Europe's deliveries (41) barely exceed Russia's (33-39) despite Europe having 3x the population, supposedly superior industrial tech, not being the most sanctioned economy on Earth, etc... https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news/2025-fighter-jet-delive... Re: rockets.....well we don't want to judge by tonnage lifted, w…

Ok, let's take all of that as a given ... (and I've not clicked on one link, or read one line of it, so this is assumption). Even after all of that... I'd still live in Europe any day of the week instead of your sh1thole country. How's your gestapo crackdown going? Your nation is currently as stain on democratic landscape. I hope you move beyond it. You're welcome.

Your comment here is arguably illegal under UK law that prevents extremism based on violence, hatred or intolerance. Referring to someone as affiliated with the Nazi party arguably fits that bill. Please exercise caution...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of...

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#586
post #485

Are those US software firms still obligated to comply with EU restrictions and legal demands if they are banned/barred/fascisticly_denied_the_option_to_compete by one or more EU territories?

You are being denied the ability to sell to the French government , not denied selling into the market. Just like no one has "rights" to sell to the US government, you don't have any "right" to sell to any foreign government if they choose not to deal with you. And frankly it should be a matter of national security for governments to control the source and deployment of the software they use.

I am not being denied. They are being excluded from consideration for contracts there.

Fascist isn't fair. I shouldn't have said that. Fascism is when the government controls but does not actually own any or enough shares to control the means of production.

What a shame though. Should US exclude foreign firms (France,) from consideration for contracts for the same reason?

No doubt the tariff master has made this all better with cruel tit-for-tat leverage that caused loss for these US firms.

(EU just canceled aspects of GDPR etc, so it's not new privacy law?)

(Edit: Kushner is currently ambassador to France. Why wouldn't they trust US-based communication firms over there all of a sudden?)

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ehm, Poland has a steady grow and might leap the UK in the nearby future. UK does not have grow per Capita since Brexit. Hungary is poor because Orban is corrupt and corruption is bad for economy.

>Poland has a steady grow Can nobody read anymore? I said "poorest people". You can easily have a growing GDP like Poland while more and more people can't afford to pay bills anymore. The GDP going up graph is meaningless for that.

Usually growing means a better living standard the general population and I think this easily applies for Poland.

Could you provide a source for " You can easily have a growing GDP like Poland while more and more people can't afford to pay bills anymore. ", Mister "Nobody can read anymore"

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#588

Are those US software firms still obligated to comply with EU restrictions and legal demands if they are banned/barred/fascisticly_denied_the_option_to_compete by one or more EU territories?

Just like Europeans, you need to understand international law. It's not law like law within a country. It's a warning. US software firms were never obligated to comply with anything. If you don't comply, you create an enemy. You comply based on your judgement of that enemies' ability, determination and level of creativity that they will use to punish you for noncompliance. Do you want to do any business at all there?…

Is you don't comply, they block your ranges and legal recommends that you block customers connecting from those IP range.

(They're perfectly free to choose a different vendor on this their need for chat productivity and video.)

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamala Harris/Tim Walz 75,019,230 48.34% Donald J. Trump/J.D. Vance 77,303,568 49.81% Various Others 2,878,359 1.85% So, 50.19% voted against Trump, 49.81% voted for him.

Voting for a 3rd candidate isn't a vote against one of the other two, or does your logic work both ways? so 51.66% of people voted against Harris? You know what, I don't even care if you respond. The election is over, and we can twist these numbers until the next election. The logical leaps taken about voting for/against someone are troubling. The tropes around this are disturbing. The emotional vitriol around all of…

> The logical leaps taken about voting for/against someone are troubling. The tropes around this are disturbing. The emotional vitriol around all of those are even worse.

Alright, the next step is to accuse everyone who might try to ground the discussion in truth that they must have TDS. I am not a huge fan of accusing one's opponents of projection, but man, sometimes it really does seem to be the most plausible answer.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#590
post #94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"They believe the current system is fundamentally unfair to them" Well it fucking is. But thinking that current king can fix it is a lunacy

What was the alternative? More of the previous administration?

Yes, and I would have been perfectly happy with that. The status quo was very much preferred to the chaos we are now experiencing. Just because I wanted different changes does not mean voting to burn it all down is the best alternative to no changes.
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